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Topic: info please? Early Fender/Shobud guitars pull release |
John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 12 Sep 2018 1:31 am |
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I have just acquired one of the little Black Fender steels it has hex shafts very much like the "Fender Artist" guitars that I have seen but this thing is a pull release system and to my surprise it really works on all four knee levers raise and lower and I cannot figure how it manages to lower as I cannot see any spring that is making that action work but it does. Could this be a one off prototype or are there more out there? Thanks for any help
JD |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2018 4:27 am
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Those student model "Fender Artist" guitars came with 1 or 2 knee levers usually, but I have seen them with 4 knees before.. Could have been add ons as they are equipped with the very common, easy to obtain Sho Bud Super Pro pull parts, and were easily upgraded..
Its a pull release, and doesn't lower the way an all pull does.On any given string its more like a "balancing act", using string tension..The mechanism "pulls" and tension increases on raises, or "releases' tension on lowers..
Get under the guitar for 10 minutes, working the levers, watching the changer,,, You'll figure it out soon enough.
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 12 Sep 2018 6:23 am
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| Thank you for the reply Bob, I have had a Fender "Artist" before but that had an all pull mech. not a pull release system it looked the same as this at first glance but I wonder when they changed over to all pull or if this model was always made like this? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Sep 2018 8:52 am
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The pull-release was the student model (Bud called it Maverick), and the pro model was all-pull.
Look at the rods that lower (such as the E lowers) a string. $2 says they have a return spring attached to the individual rods.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 12 Sep 2018 11:31 am
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Please send 2 bucks Lane lol no springs
Whatever is creating the back pressure must be in the mech. somewhere.... I have no idea but I can tell you it works! |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 12 Sep 2018 12:27 pm
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I'd have to see these on my big monitor to make sense of it. But if a string lowers, something has to pull it back.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Brian Hollands
From:
Geneva, FL USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2018 12:52 pm
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There are two pretty stout looking springs on the third cross shaft from the changer and at least one of the same type on the shaft closest to the changer.
I don't think that guitar left the factory looking that way.
_________________
'81 Sho-bud LDG, 2 EMCI's |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Sep 2018 1:07 pm
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Keep in mind that, for lowers, you have to have a spring somewhere, but it does not have to be at the changer. The string can be brought back to neutral position by a spring anywhere in the pulling train.
It looks like that's the case in your guitar. |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 12 Sep 2018 9:29 pm
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It looks like torsion springs are being used to hold the string in the middle position
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 12 Sep 2018 10:37 pm
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Gordon Bennett!!! you guys are good! there it was right under my nose and I could not see it, the two springs around the third shaft from the changer thanks to those that saw it and all reply's Just one last question, Why does it work so well? It played perfect straight out of the box I did not have to tune it and I am amazed at how positive everything is on it, I have had a good few modern guitars that could not hold a candle to it for tuning and stability, it is an absolute credit to the guy that made it.
Thanks for the help 
Lane we will call it even on the two dollars as you were only half right, it was on the shaft not the rod "not shafted"? |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 Sep 2018 3:03 am
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It works well because it is full of solid mechanical stops.
Those with pull-release guitars will tell you that, once properly set, will be rock solid when it comes to tuning stability.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 13 Sep 2018 3:39 am
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I agree with Brian; that didn't leave the factory like that.
I'd venture to say that the entire undercarriage is aftermarket, and fortunately by a cat who knew what s/he was doing.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Brian Hollands
From:
Geneva, FL USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2018 4:26 am
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Looks like Michael Yahl's work to me. Might be worth PM'ing him to see if he did it. The parts, particularly the knee lever brackets look like his stuff. And that's GOOD in my opinion.
_________________
'81 Sho-bud LDG, 2 EMCI's |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2018 4:27 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
It works well because it is full of solid mechanical stops.
Those with pull-release guitars will tell you that, once properly set, will be rock solid when it comes to tuning stability. |
Lane is correct.. Once I got my old Marlen set up about 6 years ago, nothing has had to be adjusted ever again, the guitar is never out of tune at any time, and the strings are SIX years old!.. Never even broke a thirds string g# in all that time.. Sold off all my " modern" all pull guitars, and kept the P/R Marlen.. Honestly P/R guitars are a pain to work on and wrap your head around for those of us that are used to all pull... However, once they are set up correctly, they simply stay that way until some blockhead molests them with rounded off allen wrenches, adjustable wrenches, and rusty channel locks... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Sep 2018 4:27 am
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| Lane Gray wrote: |
It works well because it is full of solid mechanical stops.
Those with pull-release guitars will tell you that, once properly set, will be rock solid when it comes to tuning stability. |
As is any decent guitar. A stop is a stop, and you really only need one for the string to come back to neutral. It's not exactly rocket science to design a firm stop, and common sense tells us that if there was anything really great about pull/release guitars, you'd see all the top pro steelers using them. The big problem with all-pull guitars is the players who constantly overtune them...if you don't know what you're doing, it's pretty easy to overtune an all-pull guitar. |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 13 Sep 2018 6:19 am
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| May the Flea's of a thousand Camel's infest the backside of anyone that might speak badly off this little beauty, I think the "positive feel" of it may be because there is one less moving part than a finger that breaks in the middle... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Sep 2018 7:33 am
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In truth, I'm not really speaking badly about them, John. Play what you like. But on the other hand, I don't want any newbies who read this thread to go off thinking that there's something "superior" in a pull/release guitar as far as tunability or stability.
A stable and reliable guitar requires a good design and build, but also an owner who know hows to tune and maintain it. For some players, more tuners on the end of the guitar just means more chances for them to screw it up. And on guitars with no pedal return springs, it becomes even easier for a player to do so. |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 13 Sep 2018 8:59 am
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| Donny for the most part I am with you on this but this is no standard guitar and whoever built it had his finger on the pulse of what makes them tick..... I have owned several pull release every one a disaster and with my limited capability they were not going to get any better... but this shows what is possible if you know what your doing, I have learned a lot from looking under this thing. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2018 8:06 pm
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Does it have a raised neck or a fretboard attached to the top of the body?
If the latter it's a modified student model. Artist models had a raised fretboard/neck.
Regardless of the appearance topside, it looks like no stock Fender/Shobud mechanism that I've ever seen.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 13 Sep 2018 10:50 pm
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| Jim it has fretboard straight to the body no raised neck, also the knee levers are about 3mm chunkier than standard Shobud teardrops, they are beautifully made, highly polished and the rake is adjustable on all of them. Although it has "Student" legs in Aluminium one of the back legs has a clever adjuster just below the skirt that I have never seen before |
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Michael Yahl
From:
Troy, Texas!
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Posted 14 Sep 2018 4:10 am
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This is the Fender 'Student' model aka 'Maverick' as previously stated and it has been modified/upgraded. I cannot claim any part in this one as I've never made teardrop knee levers to fit the thicker 1/4" thick knee lever brackets. Sho~Bud never made a Teardrop lever to fit the 1/4" wide brackets.
I believe that this was one of James Morehead's upgrades as I now have all of his/Coop's hardware and know first hand what they were building with.
The Super Pro style parts (hex shaft) were the OEM components that all of the Fender/Sho~Buds were built with. It would have been built in the '75-'76 time frame as David was in contract with Fender to build 4400 guitars for them within a 2 year period.
_________________
"Don't fergit to kiss yer horse!"
'72 Sho-Bud Professional D10, (in pieces .....), '78 MSA Classic XL D10, '69 Emmons PP, Fender 2000
Peavey Session 500 BW, Crate Digital Modeling Amp
PSG PARTS
http://www.psgparts.com/ |
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John Davis
From:
Cambridge, U.K.
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Posted 14 Sep 2018 10:48 pm
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| Having looked at all the stuff I can now find on the net about James I am sure you are right Michael, the steel community surely lost a good one there, may he rest in peace. |
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Dave Seddon
From:
Leicester, England.
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Posted 11 Mar 2019 11:41 pm
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| Does anyone have any idea what gauge wire the torsion springs are for the pull/release system? |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2019 7:24 pm
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Yes an yes pull release done right makes for a really good way to solve some of the tuning problems of some all pull steels. But the pull release works best with a simple
Copeadent but some all pulls would benefit with a simple copeadent. |
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Bob Russell
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 12 Mar 2019 8:53 pm
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For what it's worth, here are photos of the same model guitar. I think this one is mostly original except that the rodding for the knee lever was changed at some point to lower both E strings instead of the original 2 +4 lower. Very different.
_________________
Lots of stringy things, many of them slidey. |
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