National D-8

Walter Jones · From: Athens, Ohio USA

1st topic. I have a couple of pole pieces in the pickup that are loose, what holds them in place? Everything sounds OK but concerned about the loose pole pieces. What did they screw into. I have never had the pickups out of the D-8, looks like it might be a job, and if I do remove it is the problem easily repairable ?

2nd topic. I have pulled all the tuners off the guitar to replace the buttons, some gone and others cracked. I have been cleaning and trying to lube them with some drops of oil but tonight I saw some WD40 white Lithium spray lube. It says that after you spray it then it solidifies somewhat and sticks to the surface it was used on. Have anyone ever tried this on the tuners? I think the tuners are old Klusons and I can spray some lube into the top and bottom around the end of the shaft. also a small hole in the cover, may be able to spray some into that.

It is a brown and light yellow? with the cloth covered cord and screw on connector at the guitar, so I think it is a 49 or older, don't know much about the D-8 National. Shows a lot of bar dings on the back neck and nicks like it has been hauled around minus a case. Fretboards are very nice so it will not be a showpiece but a real player.

The bigger concern it the pickups, hope to come up with something to fix that.

Steven Welborn · From: Ojai,CA USA

by loose poles, do you mean sloppy and they wiggle somewhat while in place? Are they so loose they slip out of holes entirely? Are they rusty? You can replace them with new poles but they won't have a slot. They'll have a hex for mini allen. Mine were rusty and some broken on top where slot was. I replaced all of them as Lollar suggested which improves signal. They were a bit longer so instead of cutting them I screwed them just a bit into the wood underneath. I'm not sure if that actually factors in more 'body contact' tonewise, but it sounds great. I also replaced old magnets with Lollars upgraded magnets.

Walter Jones · From: Athens, Ohio USA

Steve, I can take hold of a couple of them and pull them out. Never noticed it until I had the strings off and polishing the pickup. Did you take the pickup out of the guitar and what do they actually screw into? They go down so far I don't think they will screw into anything.

Steven Welborn · From: Ojai,CA USA

The poles screw into threaded holes in the base plate of the pickup. Either those holes are stripped out (don't know how that would happen)or the poles are so deteriorated they're slipping out. Hopefully it's not the base plate holes. Or maybe somebody put the wrong size poles in there as replacements. They're already pretty skinny so it would be hard to imagine that. I can look up what size they are by checking old email from Jason Lollar.
I took my pickups out to have one repaired by Jason and to replace the magnets for both. In my case I had to un-bend the steel tabs to remove the covers from base plates but you wouldn't need to do that unless you want to repair or rewind the pickups or replace magnets.
If the holes in base plates are stripped out, maybe you could replace the poles with slightly larger poles and re-thread the holes in the base plate. You'd need to drill slightly larger holes in the covers too for the poles to fit through. Might want to remove the covers in that case to avoid metal debris inside the pickup.
First thing is to determine if those base plate holes have stripped for some reason.

Walter Jones · From: Athens, Ohio USA

Thanks Steve for the great information, so looks like I will be pulling at least one pickup. I think I need to do that to see if it is stripped or someone had a pole piece out, lost it or whatever and just dropped in a shorter pole. Here is something I will share with everyone from my post. I got a can of WD-40 white lithium spray lubricant to use on the tuners. It says on the side of the can that it will dry and form a film of lube. I put some on a tuner last night and a couple of test spots on the workbench to see what happens.

So far it has not dried any that I can see or feel. I had given the tuners a good cleaning and let them dry. I had sprayed the WD around the screw shaft at top and bottom as well as through the hole in the cover. It was as full as I could get it so I let it sit overnight. If I pick up the tuner and hit it on my hand the lube comes out still wet. Maybe it does not do as advertised, no mention of drying time.

Paul Honeycutt · From: Colorado, USA

I don't know about the WD-40 product, but Dan Erlewine has a good video on cleaning and lubing tuners on the Stewart-MacDonald website.

Paul Honeycutt · From: Colorado, USA

Here's a link.

https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Guitar_Tuning_Machine_Installation_and_Repair_Inform/Lubricating_guitar_tuners.html

Walter Jones · From: Athens, Ohio USA

Steve, I found a bolt in my junkbox that is 6/32 thread and I screwed it in with my fingers, it is a good fit so I think the threads are OK. I can get a box of 50, stainless, 6/32 X 1 inch hex end for $10.32, I am going to give that a try. Do you think Stainless steel is OK or would it make any difference.

Paul, I watched the video you suggested, went to Tractor Supply and bought a syringe and needles, Wal-Mart for the petroleum jelly and came home. I had already cleaned the tuners and blew them out with air. I tried one to lube to see how it worked, 22 ga. needles let a lot of lube out of the hole. I cut a small piece of innertube for a gasket and cut the needle off at about 3/16 inch. That gave me a good seal on the plate of the tuner to pump in the lubricant. It worked so good I actually filled the whole backplate cover and lube was coming out around the sides and around the shaft at both ends. Way too much lube, so back up and start over. Just put in a small amount and then rotate the tuner a few turns and apply a little more lube. Then I ran the tuner about 20 turns in both directions, some ran very smooth but I think some of the gears are rough but still turn OK.

Before I did the lube job I installed 16 new tuner buttons on the tuners so I think the tuners are done for now.

David Weisenthal · From: Arizona, USA

Walter, for the pole pieces, 18-8 or 316 stainless would be bad...not a magnetic steel. 400 series stainless probably ok, but just go with standard steel set screws. I have pictures of when i took my D8 pickups apart, I'll try and upload tonight.
_________________
Derby SD10, Peavey Session 400

Walter Jones · From: Athens, Ohio USA

Thanks David for the tip on the SS poles, I have the regular steel ordered and supposed to be here next Wednesday.

Walter Jones · From: Athens, Ohio USA

Steve, got the new pole pieces today and they went in fine except for one. I took my time and did it slowly with a back and forth motion, now runs OK and firm in the plate. I didn't want to pull the pickups unless I had to. I used the 6/32 X 1 inch and they are firm now, they don't feel like they hit anything going in. What measurement did you use between the string and the pole, I hear some guys use a quarter to measure. Thanks for all your help and everyone else, now to get the strings on and see if everything is OK.I will post a picture of it when I get done. Also a couple of strange looking legs that I will post later.

Steven Welborn · From: Ojai,CA USA

sounds like the holes in the base plate are ok and you just needed new poles the proper size and thread.
When I put my new poles in they were still too long when they bottomed out and the strings would buzz against the poles tops when plucked. So I screwed the poles down against the wood to make little impressions in the wood underneath. Then removed the pup and drilled 1/16" or 1/8" depth into wood exactly where each impression was with small bit so each pole could screw into wood underneath so they could be lowed under strings a little more. So each pole is screwed into wood body underneath just a few threads. Don't know if you need to lower the poles more as I did but just letting you know. I adjusted my poles as high as I could without interfering with strings

Walter Jones · From: Athens, Ohio USA

Well, here it is guys, just waiting for Greg to come by for his feedback and maybe a stamp of approval. The guitar has leg sockets and some legs but not sure I want to go with them. Some backyard engineering on the legs that came with it and a lot cheaper to sit it on a stand. It is a little heavy for your knees but maybe that is good for some.

Paul Honeycutt · From: Colorado, USA

Mine is in rougher shape then yours. I'm replacing the tuners and maybe I'll replace the knobs on the originals later on just to have them done. I need to do the knobs on my New Yorker here soon. The replacement tuners for the D-8 have metal knobs so no one will ever have to replace them again.

I'm glad the links for lubing the tuners were helpful.

Walter Jones · From: Athens, Ohio USA

Here are the legs I got with the National D-8. The two with the reduced bottom of the leg are in good shape. Never seen legs like this, I wonder if they came with the guitar. The other two legs are painted and OK but don't match. They work OK, no adjustment, solid in the guitar, but not to my liking. The angle makes them too close together at the floor and not too stable. Anyway I wanted to share them with you.

Paul Honeycutt · From: Colorado, USA

Mine has legs with grip adjusters like an old Atlas mic stand. I cleaned them up with metal polish and replaced the rubber feet. They work fine.

I went over to see it today to make sure the replacement metal button tuners that I got from Stew-Mac fir. They do, so in the next week I'll get them replaced and restring it. I'm going to take it to HSGA convention for show and tell.

I think I'll replace the buttons on the old tuners and keep 'em around or sell them to someone doing a restoration. Under the cover the tuners are bright and shiny!

Paul Honeycutt · From: Colorado, USA

All done. It looks and sounds good. Now I need to learn to play it. The near neck is E7 the far C6. I see what some people mean about the string spacing. I think I can adapt. Maybe at some point in the future I'll have it repainted, but for now, it's going to get played.

Walter Jones · From: Athens, Ohio USA

Thanks for the picture Paul, looks good. I can't tell from your picture but I had two of the original metal washers from the tuner covers missing. I went to Lowes and found #6 SS finish washers that cover the hole and fit the bracket just fine. I have the same tuning but reversed on the necks, and need to learn to play it.

The source I had to make legs out of mike stands is no longer available so I will skip the leg issue for now. Non adjustable keeps you hunting for the right spot on the floor. Probably get a soft gig case to keep it in.

It has been a fun project and will try it for awhile and then pass it on.

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