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Topic: The right steel guitar |
Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 5:26 am |
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| All the seat time we spend seeking the right tone year after year an decade after decades on the wrong uninspiring pedal steel. We should all make sure are time is better spent on the best possible instrument we can acquire. A lot of tone I know comes from the pro players hands but the inspiration from his pedal steel he has choose is what makes the magic happen. Loyd Green has too be a good example. |
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David LeBlanc
From:
New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 10:10 am
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| That is so true Johnie! For years I had a steel not up to date and was constantly struggling for motivation. I got a D10 Carter a couple years ago and WOW . What a difference. I can`t play better , but I feel more pleasure out of it. Someday I`d like to try other brands . But here at the end of the road Canada, not that many choices. I`ll have to make a trip to see your steels. You have a nice herd. Excellent post . Dave |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 10:27 am
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| Yes David I’m finding all steels are not created equal even the top name brands can sound dramatically deferent guess all instruments fall in that category. I found that most brands pedal very well but some of the guys that have a talent for setting a pedal steel up can make a huge difference in the playability an timing of the pulls. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 2:43 pm
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| Quote: |
| A lot of tone I know comes from the pro players hands |
A long time misconception.
A player sounds like himself on various instruments because of distinctive style and touch. There are minor tonal tweaks that can be done by pick attack and position but the majority of the "tone" comes from the complete rig - guitar, effects, amplifier.
"Style" is in the hands. And that's what many mistakenly perceive as "tone". the same thing has been said in the 6-string world and disproven by blind listening tests and frequency analysis.
But I do think many players spend far more time/money on mechanics rather than sound, and sound is often far down on the list behind cost, weight and power handling (the latter another oft-misapplied factor) when i comes to amplification.
I'd like to see the variable tone of multiple pickup systems with on-board controls brought back myself.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Daniel McKee
From:
Corinth Mississippi
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 2:48 pm
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| I can definitely agree with the importance of having a good instrument. I'll gladly say I started with a shobud maverick but it had upgrades and was a good guitar (still have it and enjoy playing it). I later went on to a model that had an all pull changer and I agree its important to have an instrument that you can spend more time playing and less time tuning,working on or having problems fixed. Nothing wrong with starting on a student model to get a feel of the pedal steel but after a period of time, I think its important to move up if possible. |
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 3:23 pm
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I think we have two separate entities.
1.The sound of our gear, which hopefully inspires us.
2. The sound an individual player gets, based on his technique, touch, ability, etc...
So, is it the gun, or the Shooter ? I think both determine the final product. If I had to pick one, I’d say it’s the shooter. And that’s coming from someone who loves his gear. |
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Daniel McKee
From:
Corinth Mississippi
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 3:51 pm
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| I agree very much Steve. The player should put in the effort it takes until they are happy with how they sound, the tone they get. Most of us are probably always chasing a better sound but it is up to us to continue practicing and working on our playing. Even with the best guitar out there, we wont be much of a player without putting in some serious practice time. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 3:58 pm
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Okay, let's add this hypothetical to the discussion. Suppose we have what could be called a "decent" pedal steel. Lets say we paid about $2,500 for it, and we've had it for a few years, but it's still serviceable and does everything it's supposed to. Let's also say we can get about the same amount for it if we sold it. Now, with all this in mind, which of the two following actions would make us a better player:
Sell the guitar, and take that $2,500 and add another $2,500 to it, and get a brand new guitar (with maybe a couple of extra levers) for around $5,000.
Or...
Keep the old guitar, and spend that same additional $2,500 on getting lessons from a top-of-the-line professional player.
Now, given the opportunity, and keeping in mind that we'll have the same amount of money invested, which of these two would you rather do? Which of these two do you think would improve you're playing and sound the most? |
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 5:13 pm
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Your Hypothetical is a good question. I did a similar twist.
I had a $100. Steel. I couldn’t afford a pro model.
I could afford weekly lessons from a pro, and that’s what I did.
I wish I could say that was an act of wisdom on my part, but it’s really all I could afford to do. I eventually saved up enough to buy the coveted D10 pro model. , but no regrets on the money spent on the lessons first. |
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Jason Putnam
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 5:48 pm
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I don’t think the point of the post was to buy the most expensive steel you can find. It is to buy an instrument that you are inspired by and comfortable with. I have set behind a brand new steel guitar and did not like the feel or sound of the guitar. It’s finding that instrument that says “you know you can’t resist playing me! So come on!!!!†It’s not the cost that makes that happen. I think the main advice is to not settle for something that you aren’t really into. Keep looking and testing different brands until you find “the one†whether it be a brand new MSA, Mullen, etc. or an old ShoBud S-10 that you picked up for 1200.00. Find the guitar that says “play me†to you!
_________________
1967 Emmons Bolt On, 1995 Mullen PRP 3x5,Nashville 112, JOYO Digital Delay, Goodrich Volume Pedal, Livesteel Strings |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 22 Jul 2018 8:16 pm
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| Jason You read my mind that's exactly what I was thinking but could not put my thoughts into words. I just got a steel a while back that certainly makes practice time much more Enjoyable. |
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Jason Putnam
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2018 7:20 am
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Johnie my Mullen G2 is that guitar for me. When I set down behind it it just brings me joy!!
_________________
1967 Emmons Bolt On, 1995 Mullen PRP 3x5,Nashville 112, JOYO Digital Delay, Goodrich Volume Pedal, Livesteel Strings |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 23 Jul 2018 10:16 am
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It seems like for a lot of us, being exposed to loads and loads of different brands is not possible, back in the day before internet we sort of stumbled upon a steel somewhere and whatever brand it was providing it was a good one, you sort of went that route. There never was a place where you could go and try out steels where i grew up, so it seems like you stumbled across an older MSA or Bud and you'd save for 3 years to buy it, lol you did not question it's stealth or tone, it was up to you to do the rest......It seems like back then there wasn't as much hype about tone and body drop and this lever and that extra pedal, you went on the hunt for it and it didn't come easy even with books....you tuned er up and did the painstaking seat time, U-tube has changed the world though and...it's helped us become lazy too! 
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
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Al Evans
From:
Austin, Texas, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2018 4:06 pm
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| Larry Bressington wrote: |
| ...U-tube has changed the world though and...it's helped us become lazy too! |
Man, anybody who can learn to play pedal steel and be lazy at the same time has my profound admiration!
—Al Evans
_________________
2018 MSA Legend, 2018 ZumSteel Encore, 2015 Mullen G2, G&L S-500, G&L ASAT, G&L LB-100, Godin A4 Fretless, Kinscherff High Noon |
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Steve Spitz
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2018 4:42 pm
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I always go back to Jerry Byrd’s quote, I hope I’ve got it right.
“If you can play, it doesn’t matter what guitar you play.. If you can’t play, it doesn’t matter what guitar you play†|
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 26 Jul 2018 6:30 pm
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| Steve that’s why we spend so much seat time trying too learn Might as well be a steel that inspires us to spend our time learning. Some Pros play many steels until they find the one that they enjoy each time they make music. |
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John Palumbo
From:
Lansdale, PA.
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Posted 27 Jul 2018 7:38 am
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| I think a good question would be: As far as equipment & not the player: What has more influence on that tone we seek is it really the guitar or amplifier? I guess it's a combo of both. Just wondering if one weighs more heavy than the other. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 27 Jul 2018 9:46 am
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| John Palumbo wrote: |
| What has more influence on that tone we seek is it really the guitar or amplifier? I guess it's a combo of both. |
The guitar (with PU) is the dynamic source. What it can and cannot deliver under our hands, determine the basic tone, or rather the tonal range, we have to play with in subsequent stages.
The amp – in addition to make the guitar audible – is part of the filter with which we shape – voice – the sound from the source to our taste.
I can do a lot with a guitar with a wide tonal range, filtered through a limited amp. I can not do much with a guitar that has a narrow tonal range, regardless of how good the amp may happen to be. So, to me at least, the guitar has a lot more influence on that (whatever) tone I seek than the amp does. |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 27 Jul 2018 11:28 am
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Great thread!
I spent years chasing vintage tone on vintage gear for the most part....hoping to sound like those great old classic players and records.....and maybe found it some of the time but couldn't understand why I was unhappy with my playing. It seemed I was always fighting the guitar for whatever reason...but those old classics got mojo 
Having the luxury of living 25 minutes from Ross Shafer who builds the new Sierra guitars, I was able to test drive them. At first I tried to be unimpressed and to not like them because they were too new and modern....but ended up buying one! When I got behind it I actually wanted to play it because it was fun and easy to play! Does it sound like a vintage guitar?....maybe not, I don't even really know...or care, because at the end of the day it sounds like a pedal steel and it makes me happy when I play it! I actually think my playing improved because my confidence in my instrument improved, it does what I ask it do. My unmusical wife even noticed that my playing was stronger....for reals!!!
Do I still like the old classic steel guitars? Of course! And I will always have my old Fenders and ZB's, and maybe get a ShoBud. And yes, I realize that they could be set up to play better. But for now it's working for me to not have the distraction of trying to do the retro vintage thing. I'm focusing more on music and my playing instead of on the gear.
So lesson learned!
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 28 Jul 2018 4:26 am
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| Dave thanks congratulations on your Sierra. They are a beautiful work of art. |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 28 Jul 2018 5:49 am
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It ALL goes into the equation.
I play a bit better when I'm plugged into my Milkman ($2200 rig), but I sound almost as good through my $300 Session 400 (some people even say I sound better through it)
A decent guitar in decent shape will be adequate for anyone to play on, but there IS a feedback loop in a guitar that "feels right" that makes you feel better about your playing, which makes you play better, which makes you feel better about your playing....
My MSA S-12 actually has a slightly better tone than my Zum, but because I'm not as confident on the 12, I'm tentative. So although I sound better on the MSA, I play better on the Zum.
My two cents.
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 28 Jul 2018 7:54 am
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After the early '60's, about all we had for a long time was Sho~Bud, Emmons, ZB, or MSA. There were a few other brands, like Miller, Marlen, and Sierra, but most pros didn't play them, or they didn't play them for very long. Now we have many newer brands, but none of them are involved in building really big numbers of steels. The choices are far more varied today, and not dominated by the "biggies" anymore. The same is true for straight guitars, where just a few makers produced 95% of the guitars pros once used. Now, there are dozens of popular straight guitars, and hundreds of smaller brands. People just got wiser, and found that a famous name brand wasn't required to play great music.
Don't get me wrong, there's still some "brand snobbery" around, especially in country music...and here on the forum as well. But it's nothing like it used to be, and selecting an instrument isn't limited to just two or three brands, lest you be thought of as a "lesser" player.
It's a good time to be a musician. |
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