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Author Topic:  Mica Separating from Cabinet
Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 14 Jun 2018 8:10 pm     Reply with quote

I removed the pad from my 2008 SD-10 Carter. Was really getting into the way it felt and sounded without the pad. It's subjective for sure, but seems like the body is more resonant without the pad. I LOVE this guitar (thanks, Damir!).

When I moved the guitar last night my hand brushed past the near edge of the body, and the formica was lifting away from the wood on top of the deck. I'm afraid this piece of mica will get snagged and break. It needs to be reattached. In the mean time the pad is back on the guitar to ensure the mica stays down.

Do I need to remove the entire piece to properly reattach it? How can I do that without breaking it? What kind of adhesive should I use? Hopefully there is something that allows time to position the formica.

This piece hangs over the rear edge of the deck just enough to be dangerous. This will always be problem. Can I trim or radius the edge after recementing it?
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Tim Herman


From:
Alberta, Canada
Post Posted 14 Jun 2018 8:55 pm     Reply with quote

I will be watching this thread for the answer you get. I have 2 Carter SD 10 guitars. The older one (96) has the same issue you are describing.
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John Swain


From:
Newberry,SC
Post Posted 15 Jun 2018 5:50 am     Reply with quote

Sometimes you gently pry up the loose mica and squirt some lacquer thinner underneath, and the contact cement will reattach. At least worth a try. Lacquer thinner not paint thinner!
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John Palumbo


From:
Lansdale, PA.
Post Posted 15 Jun 2018 12:02 pm     Reply with quote

I would use a heat gun along with a stiff putty knife. Start where the laminate is coming loose apply heat from the gun, while at the same time using the putty knife to lift/ pry off the laminate while you are working from one long end to the other. Be careful and go slow, as not to break or crack the laminate. Then use an adhesive remover to remove the existing adhesive from both surfaces. Then re-apply contcact adhesive to both surfaces, position in place and gently tamp in and your done. I had to do this on my Carter where the laminate was peeling off the back metal apron. Was not difficult, but I'm a little familiar with working with laminates. Good Luck

Last edited by John Palumbo on 15 Jun 2018 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post Posted 15 Jun 2018 12:10 pm     Reply with quote

Good advice from John Palumbo. As one who has tried short cuts on re-gluing loose mica, it's best to take it all off and re-glue the piece. It will save you lots of frustration in the end. One time, with a good contact cement, and you'll be done with it for good.

Just remember most good contact adhesives bond almost instantly, so you have to place it correctly when putting it back in place.
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Tony Glassman


From:
The Great Northwest
Post Posted 15 Jun 2018 12:14 pm     Reply with quote

...... and then clamp it overnight.
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Bob Hoffnar


From:
Austin, Tx
Post Posted 15 Jun 2018 5:38 pm     Reply with quote

From one who has done it the wrong way do it the right way like John says. It took forever to clean up the mess I made.
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Bob
http://liminalsoundseries.com/
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Mike Wheeler


From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
Post Posted 15 Jun 2018 5:57 pm     Reply with quote

All good advice, but.....

You're not applying the mica to a countertop. Just sticking the pieces together won't be enough. It's going on a musical instrument, so it has to be tightly clamped so as to make the mica "one with the wood", so to speak. Lots of clamps are called for.
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Mike
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 15 Jun 2018 6:12 pm     Reply with quote

I saw something about a roller.

As for removing the old adhesive... lacquer thinner, or acetone?
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John Palumbo


From:
Lansdale, PA.
Post Posted 15 Jun 2018 6:49 pm     Reply with quote

Lacquer thinner to remove old adhesive & Yes a roller is a nice tool:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/POWERTEC-1-1-2-in-x-3-in-Long-Handle-J-Roller-with-Rubber-Roller-71010/207154134?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CG%7CBase%7CD25T%7C25-1_HAND+TOOLS%7CNA%7CPLA%7c71700000034127224%7c58700003933021546%7c92700031755124844&gclid=Cj0KCQjwx43ZBRCeARIsANzpzb83zqJzs3eE_bC5kZAKfi_MvMj6YmBDluyUkSDtkgOuIVp--ePT1BIaAicMEALw_wcB&dclid=CNfShq2U19sCFcpJDAodiUcC2g
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Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post Posted 15 Jun 2018 8:10 pm     Reply with quote

Something else to consider. Since the mica has screw holes from the pad attachment, now might be a good time to replace that piece. Looks like black in your other photos, but it's probably a standard cabinet laminate.

You could have a good cabinet shop match it up and glue it on for you. Probably pretty reasonable and save you the trouble and expense of buying contact cement and tools.
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 15 Jun 2018 8:46 pm     Reply with quote

Jerry, that's a smart suggestion. The guitar is black, should be easy to match. If I do this myself I would need to trim the edge with a router, since the existing piece is too big. That step has the biggest risk for collateral damage.

Inspector Harry Callahan said "a man's got to know his limitations."

I found listings for some local cabinet makers. One caught my attention because of the names of the reviewers... Reece, Pahl, Brumley. Seriously? What are the chances of that?


Last edited by Dan Robinson on 15 Jun 2018 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post Posted 15 Jun 2018 8:53 pm     Reply with quote

Yes, well I think the laminate is normally trimmed on cabinets after application, so without removing the endplates and body trim, one couldn't very well use a laminate trimmer.... I was thinking may a cabinet shop could measure cut it to exact size but I dunno. I do know it chips easy, so I suppose it would take a proper saw blade or tool.
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 16 Jun 2018 8:50 am     How Much is Too Much Reply with quote

After wrestling with my self-doubts I decided to give this a shot myself.

Will follow John Palumbo's suggestions for removal with a flat blade, and heat gun.

The part that makes me nervous is trimming the edge. As Jerry pointed out, the end-plates will interfere with an edge router. Instead I will measure the overhang, then decide to trim the removed piece with a saw (beware of chipping it), or reduce with flat file or sander after it's reattached. I won't spare the masking tape.

If you have done this with files/sander I would appreciate your input. Any "traps for the unwary?"
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Gary L Reed


From:
Castle Rock, CO
Post Posted 16 Jun 2018 1:21 pm     Carter Reply with quote

Dan, If you'd slow down a bit you wouldn't have that problem. You are probably playin it so fast and hard that the glue is melting...
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 17 Jun 2018 9:57 am     Re: Carter Reply with quote

Gary, the only fast I do is on the stairs when my wife says, "why don't you go find something to play?"

Gary L Reed wrote:
Dan, If you'd slow down a bit you wouldn't have that problem. You are probably playin it so fast and hard that the glue is melting...

I have a lesson with Jim Cohen next Saturday. Not going to start this project until that's done.
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Tony Glassman


From:
The Great Northwest
Post Posted 17 Jun 2018 10:19 am     Reply with quote

I'd try the glue 'n' clamp fix first. If it goes south, you can always do the laminate replacement.
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Dennis Montgomery


From:
Western Washington
Post Posted 18 Jun 2018 10:54 am     Re: How Much is Too Much Reply with quote

Dan Robinson wrote:
...reduce with flat file or sander after it's reattached.

If you have done this with files/sander I would appreciate your input. Any "traps for the unwary?"


I have an old MCI I've been considering replacing the mica on and read through a ton of threads. I remember reading that sanding mica is very dangerous without a respirator because of the tiny particles that can get in your lungs. I know I won't be starting my project without one of those Home Depot paint respirator masks (~$35) Wink
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Chris Schlotzhauer


From:
Colleyville, Tx. USA
Post Posted 18 Jun 2018 6:55 pm     Reply with quote

Not trying to hijack a thread, but this situation is similar...
I have a thin chrome decorative strip on the top of the front apron that has come loose. Not the Mica, but I suspect it was glued the same as the Mica, but I'm not sure.
I'm afraid glue would ooze out and make a mess.
Any ideas?
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 18 Jun 2018 7:55 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks, Dennis. You got me thinking, so I checked the mfgs. data sheet.

I need to remove about 1/32". Gentle strokes with a fine file should do it. Pretty safe.

Power sander is another can of worms.

"Wear a NIOSH approved dust respirator that is properly fitted and is in good condition when exposed to dust levels above ACGIH permissible exposure limits (10mg/m3 based on an eight hour Time Weighted Average). "


How much is too much? I dunno. Pass the respirator.
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Dennis Montgomery


From:
Western Washington
Post Posted 19 Jun 2018 8:41 am     Reply with quote

Dan Robinson wrote:

How much is too much? I dunno.


Exactly. You won't know until it's too late Whoa!
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John Brennan


From:
Falls Church Va.
Post Posted 20 Jun 2018 1:47 pm     Cabinet delaminating Reply with quote

Hi Dan- I've been doing cabinet and laminate work since the 80's,so I've dealt with stuff like this; if you can lift the sheet a little, use a putty knife to apply some adhesive to both surfaces, let it dry and press and roll it back down. A laminate file works much better than a mill bastard file, just be careful not to cut into the laminate on the apron. I had to do the same thing on my fesse. This adhesive is the same as our big spray system, and it's super strong,but you'd probably have to order it. You can get 3-M spray 77 or 90 from home depot, but it's not as strong. Also,believe it or not, I've used Tite Bond glue to do the same thing on a countertop at work, and it's still holding after 5 years- you just have to clamp it. Here's pics of the glue and file. Good luck![img]

[/img]
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Fessy SD10 GFI ultra SD10 lots of basses and amps
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Bobby D. Jones


From:
West Virginia, USA
Post Posted 20 Jun 2018 5:41 pm     Mica Seperating from Cabinet Reply with quote

If you use any sand paper to finish smoothing. Glue and tightly staple it to a straight smooth piece of wood so it can be controlled just like a file. This will allow sanding of the laminate edge without the sandpaper rubbing on the laminate face. Just use it with same pattern of strokes like you are filing the edge. Good Luck on the project.
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John Brennan


From:
Falls Church Va.
Post Posted 20 Jun 2018 6:15 pm     Delaminating Reply with quote

The file will leave a crisper and more polished edge than sanding; normally after flush trimming, I will use a 7° bevel trimmer and follow with filing;the important thing is whether you sand or file is to try to maintain the angle throughout the whole process. It definitely takes some practice, but once you get the hang of it it's pretty easy
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Fessy SD10 GFI ultra SD10 lots of basses and amps
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 1 Jul 2018 10:38 am     Reply with quote

No tricky gap-filling work will be needed to re-cement this formica. The entire piece was loose. It separated easily with a flat blade.



This might be a clue about who built this Carter in 2008.



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