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Author Topic:  Which Cables
George Frachiseur

 

From:
Arkansas, USA
Post  Posted 2 Jun 2018 7:47 pm    
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I was just wonering which cables are the best to use?
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Jim Sliff


From:
Lawndale California, USA
Post  Posted 2 Jun 2018 8:31 pm    
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Most any better quality cables work fine. You can find comparisons by Googling the subject - there have been articles done by every print and online guitar and music gear magazine in existence.
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Eric Philippsen


From:
Central Indiana, USA
Post  Posted 3 Jun 2018 6:08 am    
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There are a lot of opinions on this and I'm sure the previous poster is correct. That is, most high end cables are fine.

Speaking for myself, I've used George L cables for 35 years or so. First, when they had the brass end plugs and larger diameter cable and now their current configuration. I've liked them for several reasons. They "sound" good, to my ears, and evenly transfer the entire signal without coloration. They can be cut and assembled to whatever lengths you need, from a few inches for pedal board hookups to longer lengths. And if one goes "bad" you just trim and reinsert the cable into the plug. There's no soldering. I do, however, trim with a razor knife the point on the cable where the plug's shield screw makes contact with the cable's inner shield wrap. That guarantees a good connection.

I stay away from their right angle plugs, though, preferring the longer of the two straight plugs they offer. The right angle ones are kind of a hassle.

On the other hand, I use another type cable for the 6-string jazz work I do. For that I WANT the cable to soften the tone. I don't want sharp or "edgy" tone.
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Donny Hinson

 

From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post  Posted 3 Jun 2018 6:41 am     Always carry extra cables!
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If you use a buffer or powered pedal, then it's not going to make a whole lot of difference. But if you use a pot pedal and no buffer, then there is a lot you can do with cables to augment or change your sound. Low capacitance cables, like George-L's, will enhance your highs and clarity, but do nothing to add warmth and body to your sound. Regular or standard cables will somewhat reduce the highs you hear, but they can add warmth and body to your tone.

Also...personally, I don't recommend those giant "super strong" or "guaranteed for a lifetime" cables. I'd rather use a regular inexpensive cable that's going to break when someone trips over it. That way, there's less chance they'll pull my guitar off the stage, or break the jack in my guitar or amplifier. Winking
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George Frachiseur

 

From:
Arkansas, USA
Post  Posted 3 Jun 2018 12:00 pm    
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Thanks guys this has been a great help in my cable selection.
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Tim Whitlock


From:
Colorado, USA
Post  Posted 4 Jun 2018 10:13 am    
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You might want to take a look at Bullet Solderless Cables. Been meaning to try them myself because I want all right angle plugs on my cables. Erv sells them here on the Forum and they get good reviews.:

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=306210
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Al Evans


From:
Austin, Texas, USA
Post  Posted 4 Jun 2018 2:15 pm    
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I really l ike the D'Addario Planet Waves cables. They sound as good as the ones I make myself (Canare cable and Neutrik connectors) and are a whole lot easier to deal with.

--Al Evans
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Carl Mesrobian


From:
Salem, Massachusetts, USA
Post  Posted 4 Jun 2018 2:31 pm    
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I either make my own with parts from Redco Audio https://www.redco.com/ , or buy something.
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"The better it gets, the fewer of us know it." Ray Brown
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Alan Murphy

 

From:
N Ireland
Post  Posted 5 Jun 2018 2:21 pm    
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I prefer cable which has the lowest possible capacitance per foot. Twice the length of cable from pickup to foot pedal or foot pedal to amp is twice the capacitance and this causes two possible problems - the capacitance causes the cable to act like a low pass filter, and also lowers the self resonant high frequency peak of the pickup. Both have the effect of reducing the high frequency component of the signal. So the shortest possible cable is always best.

The idea should be to get as much of the pickup frequencies as possible to the amp and then YOU have the option to reduce the highs at the amp if you wish, however loose your high frequencies with a long high capacitance cable and they are gone forever.

Due to the physical nature of capacitors, the smaller more fragile cable tends to have the lowest capacitance per foot which is why George L (.155) at 19pF/ft is pretty low, while many heavy duty cables are in excess of 50pF/ft.

So really the only cable tone magic is low capacitance cable.

Only disadvantage of thin cable is that it might suffer microphonic type noise if moved around a stage, this type of cable is often used in fixed installations where there is no movement, however steel guitar cables tend to be a pretty static application so these light cable are usually fine.

I have seen many pedal steel guitars where the foot pedal was connected to the amp with a 20 foot plus heavy duty regular guitar lead, and the lack of highs made an otherwise good setup sound so dull and lifeless.

Tube preamps have a much higher input impedance than solid state preamps which causes the low pass filtering of the cable to be even more pronounced.

As mentioned above if you get into a buffered foot pedal or some other type of buffer amp such as a DD3 before the cable run to the amp, then this helps as most buffer amps have a low output impedance which helps to minimise the low pass filter effect, however many like just a passive foot pedal between pickup and amp input.

Sommer Spirit and Van Damme have cable as low as 16pF/foot I would love to try them. Has anyone tried them ?
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Donny Hinson

 

From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post  Posted 6 Jun 2018 7:37 am    
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Alan Murphy wrote:

The idea should be to get as much of the pickup frequencies as possible to the amp and then YOU have the option to reduce the highs at the amp if you wish, however loose your high frequencies with a long high capacitance cable and they are gone forever...
So really the only cable tone magic is low capacitance cable.


I have seen many pedal steel guitars where the foot pedal was connected to the amp with a 20 foot plus heavy duty regular guitar lead, and the lack of highs made an otherwise good setup sound so dull and lifeless.



I've always been puzzled by players who say the want maximum highs, but then they set the treble on their amp at "3"? But, whatever works for you works for you. I stopped using low-cap cables because I wanted less highs and more warmth and body in my sound.

Also, I see no reason to use a 20' cable unless your amp is almost 20' away. Using a very long cable is counter-intuitive, even if it has no effect on tone. A long cable poses more of a tripping hazard, and it also can increase noise and reduce the amount of signal from the guitar to the amp.
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post  Posted 6 Jun 2018 7:53 am    
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Tim,
Thanks for the plug!
Yes, I have quite a few satisfied customers who have ordered the Bullet cable and ends from me.
They are solderless and the angle plugs are the best you can get in the solderless type. Very Happy
Erv
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 6 Jun 2018 8:47 am    
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Does anyone know the capacitance of Bullet cable?

Also, does it really matter? I can't hear above 12kHz anyway, and guitar speakers typically don't output anything above 6kHz. Oh Well
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Lee Baucum


From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
Post  Posted 6 Jun 2018 9:31 am    
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b0b wrote:
Also, does it really matter? I can't hear above 12kHz anyway, and guitar speakers typically don't output anything above 6kHz. Oh Well


Agreed!

I use a Sarno FreeLoader and notice even inexpensive, higher capacitance cables sound great when used after the buffer.

I also agree with Donny. I tend to crank back the knob on the FreeLoader to tame the highs and warm up the sound.
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Jack Hanson


From:
San Luis Valley, USA
Post  Posted 6 Jun 2018 1:25 pm    
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It's been said that you can get good, or you can get cheap. But you can't get both good and cheap. But if you are comfortable with a utility knife and a soldering iron, you can get pretty good and sorta cheap.

Markertek has Canare cable in several different colors for .46 per foot. It's marketed for video applications, but also works well for guitar cabling:

https://www.markertek.com/product/lv-61s-bk/canare-lv-61s-rg59-75-ohm-video-coaxial-cable-by-the-foot-black

They also sell Rean (by Neutrik) 1/4" plugs for $1.33:

https://www.markertek.com/product/nys-224/rean-nys224-1-4-inch-mono-phone-connector-w-long-barrel-nickel-silver

I have built dozens of cables using these components and they work fine for me. And a big tip of my purple Vi-Queens baseball cap to Steve in Los Angeles who turned me on to Markertek.
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post  Posted 6 Jun 2018 9:21 pm    
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I compared George L .155 on both sides of a pot pedal. I could hear the difference compared to some generic higher capacitance cables. Hilton VP is lower impedance on the output side, so cable capacitance has less impact.

The available colors nicely mark these cables as mine.

Right-angle plug at the end plate presents less snag hazard.
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Alan Murphy

 

From:
N Ireland
Post  Posted 7 Jun 2018 12:58 am    
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Donny:
I agree longer cable than is necessary is always bad, usually it is players who double up with regular guitar seem to use the same lead for both.

Bob:
I believe the self resonant high frequency peak is typically occuring at 5kHz - well within the audible range of everyone, and cable capacitance does move this peak towards a lower frequency and as Dan said, you can hear the difference.

Looking at Fig 15 in the article below for a stratocaster pickup you can see the high frequency peak moves well within the audible range, due to a few hundred pF capacitive load. If we use cable 50pf/foot and the length is a reasonable 10 ft then we are likely to be moving the peak with 500pF load.

http://buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/


I think if you prefer a more mellow / warm sound and you are NOT boosting the highs at the amp - then high capacitance cable has neglible effect, however if you like a bright sound then getting as much of the high frequency component to the amp does give the option to use it as desired.

A full frequency spectrum signal can be shaped at the preamp equalisation stage, however to try to get a bright sound using active high frequency when the high frequency signal component is reduced results in an different harsher sound.

With the renewed popularity of 12 inch speakers (PF350, TTroy, Telonics, NV112 etc) the cable hookup is becoming more important to get the best out of these speakers.

Paul Franklin suggests in the PF350 demo video that the higher almost inaudible frequencies being reproduced are a large part of the "buttery highs"

Apparently most young people can hear up to 20kHz with the occasional person (dog) being able to hear to 30kHz! So perhaps many of us are sounding painfully sharp to young people and don't realise it !

Great topic alan..
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
Post  Posted 7 Jun 2018 7:38 am    
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That explains it very well, Alan. Thanks for posting that link.
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