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Topic: Crate VC 508 |
Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2018 6:03 am |
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Anyone have any experience with one of these? 2nd-best amp for blues harp I've ever played through, but unfortunately I no longer have it in my possession. As most little amps designed for lap steel also make excellent harp amps, I'm thinking the reverse may be true and it would make a decent small lap steel amp.
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2018 8:53 am
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| Jack, I have one and have never tried it with lap steel. Great for harp. I swapped the preamp tube with a 12at7 for more clean headroom but it has to be miced for a gig. I use the lap steel both dirty blues but mostly clean so it was not an option. I'll give it a try. |
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ajm
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 2 Jun 2018 9:50 am
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It has been years.......
and
It doesn't really address your question, but.......
I bought one as a gift for a friend of mine maybe 15 years ago. I had it in my possession for a couple of weeks before sending it off to him.
Playing through it, one thing kept going through my mind: The first ZZ Top album.
People debate about what Billy Gibbons used on different songs a lot, and Billy is of little help with his mastery of deception. (He's not exactly alone in this department, either.)
But that amp, or rather that "type" of amp, to me nailed the tones on that first album. Probably a small tweed Fender Champ or similar. Small cabinet, small speaker, simple circuitry. Once you play through one, you will not hear a Twin or a Marshall or a Vox or anything else when you spin that album again.
As a matter of fact, you'll probably hear that "type" of amp on most of the pre MTV ZZ albums. |
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Paul Arntson
From:
Washington, USA
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 2 Jun 2018 8:34 pm
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Th VC series often sound decent - if maintained properly (filter capacitors replaced if around 12-15 years old and general service done)...
...but the build quality is very poor and the basic service costs can exceed the value. I've worked on many of them far too often for their age - reliability is a big issue.
I've had opportunities to buy various ones cheap and usually pass. Just not worth the hassle.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 3 Jun 2018 8:30 am
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| Paul Arntson wrote: |
| Is it an EL84 for the power tube? |
Yes, the power tube is an EL84. The stock preamp tube is a 12AX7. As Larry alluded to, a 12AT7 substitution definitely helps tame it for harp mic use.
I have never mic'd the amp, but rather ran a cable from the line out straight into the PA. Worked great.
I'm considering a speaker upgrade. Anyone have any recommendations for an 8-inch, 8-ohm speaker? Also considering fabricating a decent cab from pinewood, a decent baffle board, and installing a 12" low-wattage AlNiCo mag speaker. Opinions and/or suggestions welcome. |
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Paul Arntson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 4 Jun 2018 8:12 am
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Is there a mfr code on the existing speaker?
Amazon and Parts Express have some cheaper 8".
Based on some of my tinkering, I would suggest concentrating on making the 12" extension (closed back) and live with the existing 8" for the time being. You can only improve an open back 8" so much.
I guess neo speakers have gotten pricey.
I got a Celestion G12 Century Vintage neo back in 2013 when they were on sale for $79.
I made an experimental closed back narrow panel style cabinet out of 1/2" scrap ACX sheeting plywood. It's ugly, but I like the sound. I think the flimsiness helps.
Dimensions were 22 wide, 19 high and 9 deep. 5/16" birch plywood baffleboard and back panel. I had to use lots of screws around the edge on the back to get rid of the rattles.
7.2 pounds total including speaker. Not bad for a 60W cabinet.
_________________
Excel D10 8&4, Supro 8, Regal resonator, Peavey Powerslide, homemade lap 12(a work in progress) |
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 4 Jun 2018 11:37 pm
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Thanks for the link!!
Arrrrrgh! A TL072 opamp in the front end??? WTF did they do that??
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2018 6:55 am
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| Paul Arntson wrote: |
| Is there a mfr code on the existing speaker? |
The VC 508 that I purchased new around the turn of the century had a Celestion PG8A-15 speaker:
That amp is on permanent loan to a friend a few hundred miles away. I missed it so much I purchased another, which has yet to be delivered. No idea what kind of speaker is in there, but the seller thought it was original.
I loved the Celestion for harp, but considered it a tad on the harsh side with my vintage lap steels. |
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Paul Arntson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 5 Jun 2018 8:15 am
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Very cool, Jack. Thanks. I have a G8A-15 in my Kustom Arrow 16. It has pretty good tone for lap steel, and I think a lot of it comes from the speaker. (And a few mods I made on the amp.) I agree about harshness, but I found I could control it by playing around with the volume and tone on the lap steel and on the amp. Also try running the gain a taste lower than you'd think and compensating with the volume. A friend of mine has a collection of $$$ boutique small amps, and my Kustom sounded pretty nice when we directly compared them (believe it or not).
Personally if your new one turns out to be a Celestion, I wouldn't spend much effort on trying to improve the speaker.
Steven -
There was probably too much hiss with a 4558 op amp.
Check this out:
http://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/design-handbooks/Basic-Linear-Design/Chapter1.pdf
Page 1.55 has a noise equation that's relevant.
There are 12 more chapters of cool stuff.
_________________
Excel D10 8&4, Supro 8, Regal resonator, Peavey Powerslide, homemade lap 12(a work in progress) |
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Paul Arntson
From:
Washington, USA
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Steven Paris
From:
Los Angeles
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Posted 8 Jun 2018 5:06 pm
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| ajm wrote: |
| People debate about what Billy Gibbons used on different songs a lot, and Billy is of little help with his mastery of deception. (He's not exactly alone in this department, either.) |
Yeah, that's a fact, Jack. He even figured he could get away with not really playing live, just miming to his records being played back at high volume. Well, I noticed, damn it. Went to a concert and kept wondering how they managed to get such a full sound with only a trio, and how perfectly like the record they sounded. Well, it WAS the record, those slimy bastards! You'll never see me at another ZZ TOP concert. In fact, I want my money back for the one I did attend. Milli Vanilli all over again!!
_________________
Emmons & Peavey |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 22 Jun 2018 10:12 am
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| The little Crate was delivered a while back. It also is equipped with a Celestion PG8A-15 speaker. As I suspected, the stock 12AX7 preamp tube is just a tad hot for lap steel, just as is with a harp mic. So, I ordered a couple new tubes -- a JJ EL84 and a Teslovac 12AT7. The new tubes were delivered and installed yesterday, and there's a huge improvement in the headroom department. It's a decent little amp for lap steel now -- not Pro Junior or Princeton Reverb decent, but you likely won't run across one of them for under $100.00 either, at least on eBay. |
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