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Topic: Franklin & Emmons p/p - comparing tone |
Tore Blestrud
From:
Oslo, Norway
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Posted 23 May 2018 2:34 am |
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I changed the pick up in my old Emmons the other day, and recorded these short audio clips to compare the tone of my recently acquired Franklin with the old bolt-on.
Same set up (Benado, Little Walter, KSM323 mic, UA tube channel strip (where the compression cicks in harder on the hotter TT-10)).
We discussed this on the Norwegian steel forum, and found it interesting that the guitars sound quite the same. But there is some thing magical about the Franklin guitar in recording.
https://soundcloud.com/blestrud/steel-guitar-sound-examples-franklin-and-emmons
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Emmons D-10 P/P 78", Franklin D-10, Zum Encore. Sho-Bud LDG |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 23 May 2018 3:16 am Psg
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| Looks like one of Hal Ruggs, Franklins. |
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Tore Blestrud
From:
Oslo, Norway
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Posted 23 May 2018 3:39 am
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It is the same guitar. Seen on YouTube from ISGC 1990/1994.
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Emmons D-10 P/P 78", Franklin D-10, Zum Encore. Sho-Bud LDG |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 23 May 2018 4:42 am
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I can hear the difference. But, I owned a (bought new) 71 D=10 PP and now have a (bought new) Franklin D-10 (S/N 65). Which one I like better? Mechanics the Franklin. Sound a slight edge to the Franklin.
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GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 23 May 2018 5:54 am
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| Did Buddy Emmons ever record with Franklin? He did with Emmons and EMCI steels. Don't know about a Franklin Stevet. |
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Franklin
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Posted 23 May 2018 7:09 am
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| Not sure which sessions he used his Emmons guitar with a Franklin mechanism/conversion on but Dad converted a push pull of Buddy's to an all pull Franklin...That Emmons conversion guitar, to my ears, sounded the way Tori's Franklin example does...Extremely close to the P/P with a slight Sho-Bud permanent warmth. |
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steve takacs
From:
beijing, china via pittsburgh (deceased)
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Posted 23 May 2018 2:57 pm
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Paul,
Thanks for the insight on the Buddy Emmons-Franklin conversion. I certainly did not know that.
I met your father once at the Jeff Newman week seminars. He picked my MSA up, flipped it around and adjusted it in a couple minutes. Stevet |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 23 May 2018 5:04 pm
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WEll I hear a difference. The Franklin just glitters the Tone of every string and I hear quite the separation between each string range. I don't hear that as much on the Emmons no matter which pickup.
There is "MAGIC" about that Franklin...you just said; that was a great example....as sometimes it's so hard to describe in detail what one hears....but the word "Magic" always prevails...and you nailed it Tore.....That Franklin is MAGICAL!!!!!.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 23 May 2018 5:42 pm
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All sound terrific and I'b be thrilled with any one of them, but the second sample does it for me...particularly on the low end growl of 6,8, 10. So maybe I'm the odd man out here. It's just what I prefer.
I might add that I didn't find the comments concerning which was which until after I'd listened the first couple of times |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 23 May 2018 6:05 pm
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| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
| I might add that I didn't find the comments concerning which was which until after I'd listened the first couple of times |
Where are they? I still haven't found them.  |
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Tore Blestrud
From:
Oslo, Norway
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Posted 23 May 2018 8:57 pm
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Lee:
1. Franklin D-10 ser.nr. 138 (ca 1990) with BL 710 pick up.
2. Emmons Push/Pull bolt-on 1967 with 11,5 KOhm pick up.
3. Same guitar as nr. 2 but with TT-10 17,5 KOhm pick up.
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Emmons D-10 P/P 78", Franklin D-10, Zum Encore. Sho-Bud LDG |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 23 May 2018 9:23 pm
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Very interesting, I like the sound of the third one best, the first one second and second one last. First recording sounds glassy on high end to me. Last recording is Chrystal clear they hole spectrum. I guess everyone hears different. My ears aren’t the best either. Though I know the order they were played now, I didn’t when I sampled the sound.
I did an experiment once years back where I played five guitars on one recording. The were a D-10 Rains, a D-10 Zum, a 70 model D-10 push pull, a D-10 MCI range expander and an old 6149 single show bud that only had two pedals hooked up and 1 knee. I, listed the guitars and surprisingly, it took two weeks before anyone guessed what was what and think it was Fred Justice. All sounded about the same, just very little differences. Most thought the Rains was the push pull and the sho bud the Zum. Lol, never can tell.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 23 May 2018 10:13 pm
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They all sound excellent. The differences are subtle.
But we are hearing the steels acappella. How many gigs have you played on PSG where there is no other instrument? The real test is how a steel sounds in the mix of a group. I suspect each of these steels would do just fine. But #2 might get more love if it wasn't so lonely.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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John Goux
From:
California, USA
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Posted 23 May 2018 11:40 pm
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#3 I hear the TT since I use those pickups, it has more midrange and less definition in the high end.
#2 same guitar, brighter pickup. My fav.
Franklin sounds wonderful.
I wouldn’t kick any of them out of bed.
J
PS. A player will always interact with what he hears. One way to reduce natural human variation in examples would be to play without a volume pedal, and if possible, to prevent the player from hearing the amplifier as he plays. Only a robot plays exactly the same every time. It makes A/B/C comparisons pretty subjective.
But I still appreciate the fine work and effort. Thanks! |
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Dave Campbell
From:
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Posted 24 May 2018 1:20 am
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| #2 is my favourite. i'm surprised at the impedance reading. i've got a set of truetones somewhere in the 16 range that i might just rewind a little lower. |
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Russ Tkac
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Posted 24 May 2018 4:42 am
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| #1 gets my vote. It has something more to my ears. |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 24 May 2018 5:02 am
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Tores A master would love to her him do a couple less popular brands.
Last edited by Johnie King on 24 May 2018 7:13 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 24 May 2018 5:37 am
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The differences are very subtle to my ears, they all sound extremely good.
I'm just sayin', I would fail the blind taste test ! 
My luck I would say track # 2 and #3 are not the same guitars !
That being said, the tones of those ending phrases coming off the 9th string are what we are paying for ! 
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Damir Besic
From:
Nashville,TN.
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Posted 24 May 2018 5:40 am
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I remember when I bought my first push pull Emmons from Bobbe, it sounded awe full to me at home in my bedroom, to harsh and bright, however, on the stage with the band it turned into the best sounding Steel I ever heard, clean and powerful cutting straight through the stage sound and the band, another time I had nice 70’s MSA Classic that sounded wonderful at home in the bedroom, but it got completely lost in mix on stage in live situation with the band, it was so bad that I had a problem hearing what I was playing... I also remember story someone told me where he set behind Buddy’s guitar while band Buddy was playing with was on break, he said that was the worst sounding Steel he ever played, however, as soon as Budfy got back up on the stage, it sounded great, just like Buddy... ha go figure...
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https://steelguitarsonline.com/ |
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Billy Carr
From:
Seminary, Mississippi, USA (deceased)
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Posted 24 May 2018 5:46 am Psg
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| Wonder if 11.5 ohms pu makes a big difference compared to the others? |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 24 May 2018 4:30 pm
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My previous comment could be interpreted as a criticism of the test procedure. That was not my intent. I thank Tore for posting these sound clips.
It was very informative for me to hear the Franklin versus the Emmons, and the different pickups in the Emmons. If I ever get off my butt I might try to make a similar comparison between my Emmons and my Rains; both excellent sounding guitars, just a bit different.
I'd really like to hear someone do something similar comparing either an Emmons PP or Franklin to the new Sierra. I would never consider spending $10k on an S10 steel without knowing that it sounded at least as good as those benchmark steels.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Tore Blestrud
From:
Oslo, Norway
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Posted 24 May 2018 8:54 pm
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I agree with your previous post Paul. The most important thing to probably most of us is how a steel sounds in a live band or in a busy mix.
A steel that sounds warm and full in the whole spectrum could get lost when EQ'd to fit in the mix of a recording. Buddy on a p/p or Paul on a Franklin is just perfect in my ears.
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Emmons D-10 P/P 78", Franklin D-10, Zum Encore. Sho-Bud LDG |
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Greg Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 25 May 2018 4:50 am
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Some of my favourite steel guitar tone that I've ever heard, is From Mike Johnson,
"Lighthouse" on youtube.
Just sounds perfect, Not sure if that was a Franklin or Emmons, hard to go wrong with either.
Cool comparison , thx for posting.
Greg |
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Ross Shafer
From:
Petaluma, California
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Posted 25 May 2018 6:11 am
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"I'd really like to hear someone do something similar comparing either an Emmons PP or Franklin to the new Sierra. I would never consider spending $10k on an S10 steel without knowing that it sounded at least as good as those benchmark steels."
So would I Paul....I haven't got a PP or a Franklin here, but all ya'll are welcome to visit me here in Petaluma, CA to try a new Sierra out. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 25 May 2018 6:45 am
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Greg,
Mike plays an red Emmons.
As far as I know, it's a p/p.
Erv |
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