Have we reached the "Top" yet?

Jeff Metz Jr. · From: York, Pennsylvania, USA

I was just thinking about modern builders(Mullen, Show Pro, Zum, Excel, Etc.) and how great the guitars play and sound. I haven't played all of the guitars out there but I have sat behind a good many. I know we have come a long way as far as feel and mechanics go. I also believe that tone is very subjective. I along with many others believe that some of those old Buds and push pulls can't be beat for tone.
I guess what Im getting at is this. Are we finally at the top of the performance, tone spectrum? I play Mullen guitars and can't Imagine any true improvements to be made to the instrument. Then you have Holy Grail Franklins. I have sat behind a few Franklins and love the feel and tone. Then the Franklin owners sit behind my Mullen and they get a certain look in their eyes. Its not envy, but its the realization that these new guitars have come a long way. If I didn't know better I'd say they are taken aback by how good the mullen is and that its on the same level as their Franklin. (These are only my opinions). I am just curious as to your thoughts on the matter?
Can it be that an assembly line guitar can stand up to a one off hand crafted guitar like a Franklin, Fulawka, etc? Is there anywhere else to improve as far as feel and tone are concerned?
Thanks All.
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Barry Coker · From: Bagley Alabama, USA

When I started P/S in the Mid 70's most of the modern guitars had not even started production. Sho-Bud and Emmons were still in production and the Pedal Steel as we know it was still in its infancy compared to other string instruments which have been around for hundreds of years.
The Pedal Steel in 50 or 60 years has come a long way but the "Top"? I can't say. Like many things in this world "Only Time Will Tell". Time and possible a yet unknown
or even unborn innovator yet to come.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

Meh, I don't buy it personally.. Does anything built today REALLY sound "better" than all the great pedal steel tones of the past??.. Not to my ears.
Are they REALLY more in tune?.. again, Not to my ears, and I have pretty good pitch..

By far the best pedal steel action I have ever felt, is on the decrepit old marlen I have sitting upstairs.. Absolute butter soft pedal, ultra light action.. No modern guitar I have ever played was as good..
One of my old Fender 800 guitars after a really careful lubrication, and precise set up[by me] played as soft and smooth as anything i ever played as well, including several modern production steels...

The only thing I will say for sure about modern guitars is this- They are more consistent in quality, they have better machine work and more precision fitment of components.. Thats all well and good, but does that make them "the top"?.
As always, thats in the eye and ear of the beholder.. To me, I like the old stuff based on the sounds and styles I grew up listening to and emulating.. The new stuff played on new equipment is great,.. Is it "better" than pedal steel of 40 years ago??.. thats highly debatable... bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!

no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

I think pedal steel building has evolved and improved an awful lot since the early days, especially in terms of precision mechanics. But as far as room for improvement, there is and there always will be IMO. The latest innovations come on the new MSA guitars and they are impressive. One of their earlier innovations that I believe first appeared on their Millenium guitars is the quick change pickup. The rest of the builders have been slow to move in that direction and that's too bad. That should be standard on all new guitars.
Another thing that concerns me ( and perhaps it has already been widely addressed but we don't hear anything about it in the literature ) are the lacquer finishes being used today. It is so sad to see what were beautiful lacquer guitars rendered hideous by sunlight exposure. Hopefully the new ones are immune to fading. If not then that is surely something that needs to be solved once and for all. There are all sorts of UV light blocking technologies out there. If someone is paying a big price for what is really a work of art lacquer guitar they should be assured that their investment is well protected against UV light damage.
So there are a couple of things that may have a ways to go yet.

Bill Lowe · From: Connecticut

I'm not a pro player but I have been fortunate to have many different high end guitars. There is nothing that sounds like or plays like an old Emmons. My favorite guitars by far.
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Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

Have any of the above sat behind a new Sierra or reviewed it's specs/construction?

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Don't care much about equipment, so there's no "holy grail" for me. I put about 90% in the player, and 10% in everything else. I've heard truly beautiful stuff played on what I consider substandard gear. And far too many times, I've heard stuff that borders on terrible from players that have the best of everything. One review I saw a few days ago advertising a new ___________ still has me muttering about the player. There's always room for improvement, but players that fixate on this sound or that confound me.

Buy something and learn to play it.

Master it.

That'll get you noticed more than any brand name.

Bill Lowe · From: Connecticut

Donny I agree with what you said(thats where I fall short) but dont you think there is a certain sound that each of us likes better and more pleasing to our ears? It may not sound better or different to you but if I'm playing to please me there is a certain sound that I like. I have guitars that no matter what I do or how I set the amp I cant get the sound of my 66 emmons. Thats what I want to hear. I still dont sound like a pro and never will sound like BE but it is pleasing to me. Some guitars just dont do it.
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JCH D10, 71 D10 P/p fat back, Telonics TCA 500C--12-,Fender JBL Twin, Josh Swift signature.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I agree, Bill, but have this stipulation. It's fine for any player to like anything they choose, be it an Emmons, Sho Bud, ZB, or any other brand. The thing that gets my goat are the players who try their darnedest to make everyone use what they use or like what they like. After a while, it becomes like propaganda..."Ve vill makk you believe und do like us, or else!"

Just let people play what they play, and like what they like. And don't keep bragging about what you have, and what you play, and how good it is.

That stuff just gets old after awhile. Kinda like the next-door neighbor who's constantly bragging about their children, how smart they are and how talented they are, and how pretty/ handsome, yadda, yadda, yadda. Oh Well

Russell Adkins · From: Louisiana, USA

I agree with ya Donny,Ive played MSa , Sierra , Sho bud and by far my d10 BMi was the best and i know there aint anyone gonna go out and buy one lol

Kenneth Kotsay · From: Davie/Ft Lauderdale, Florida

Thus far my, Franklin tops them all, Ive owned Sho-Bud, Emmon's P/P, MSA, EMCI, played Emmons all pull, Klein, Mullen, Sierra, Carter and Excel.

Don't get me wrong their all great steels, if I had the cash I buy all of them and have them in my collection.

By the way I'm awaiting a new D-10 MSA.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Just out of curiosity, how often has somebody in an an audience approached you told you;"You're playing the wrong brand. Or using the wrong gauge finger pick. You should be playing a (xxxxxxx) instead."
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Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

How is "Top" defined?

My wants and needs are simple.
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Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande

There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.

Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

Master it? HA!

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

I wonder would Loyd Green sound like he dose on a Emmons I Betting you couldnâ€™t here here a difference. Itâ€™s the master not the brand u play.

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

I wonder would Loyd Green sound like he dose on a Emmons I Betting you couldnâ€™t here here a difference. Itâ€™s the master not the brand u play.

John Goux · From: California, USA

The pedal steel of the future will be electronic.

Faux strings will trigger pedal steel samples from your choice of brands and pickups.

The coped and tuning will be instantly changeable and storable.

The pedals will be electronic and foot pressure will be optional.

There will be no intonation issues caused by temperature changes, hysteresis or tuners.

No back issues.

The steel will be light, and you can break it down into a small case that will fit in an overhead.

Because they are samples, your right hand can be played with or without picks, making muting easier. Like a guitar.
The bar hand will be the same, if you want,

Does this sound like a futuristic dream? The technology to achieve this electronic pedal steel is available now. It will take someone with the know how and money to build it.

Iâ€™ve heard steel samples on sessions, triggered by a keyboard, that even fooled me.
Most large touring acts and pit bands are already using direct input amp-less stages.
Making the pedal steel a sample player is the next step.

When will this happen? When us old farts are pushing up daisies. Then a new generation of musicians and builders will rewrite the paradigm of pedal steel.

This will be wonderful news for the instrument.
Bands will be able to take the instrument on the road. The pedal steel players will create new sounds that will become an important element in a new music.

Thatâ€™s my opinion, anyway.
John

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

Flying carpet rides time travel self driving cars and fake pedal steel guitars. Nothing will replace the Masters steel guitar touch an tone. The midi steel pickup was a failure very impressive but failed to become popular.

Bill Miller · From: Gaspe, Quebec, Canada

John Goux, that scenario you paint may be desirable to some but it would effectively kill my interest in playing the instrument if it were the only option. A really big part of the appeal for me are the physical attributes of current pedal steels, and the challenges presented by same. There is a great satisfaction in learning to cope with bars and picks and volume pedals. And what feels any better than struggling with and eventually succeeding in hitting those chimes on cue or 'in tune' half-pedaling on the fly? I never set up my guitar that I don't admire the precision mechanics, the polished chrome and aluminum and the carefully crafted maple cabinet. The notion of reducing all that to some sort of fold up, laptop sized synthesizer is abhorrent to me. I've spent the better part of thirty years enjoying an extremely satisfying relationship with what we have today.
It's a bit like cars maybe. Some are attracted to fully automated driverless electric cars while others will never let go of the tactile pleasure of driving a classic. I'm in the second group for sure.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

To the OP's topic - no, I don't even know how to define a "top". The criteria are totally subjective. To some people, an Emmons push-pull completely defines the standard for pedal steel. Others, a mid-70s Sho Bud with barrels behind 2-hole pullers into a 1+1 changer. Others, a Franklin, a ZumSteel, Infinity, Sierra, or a Mullen G2. Others, a Fender 400/800. I think the instruments will continue to progress - some people may like 'em, and others will no doubt continue to do what they've always done.

Bill Moran · From: Virginia, USA

[quote="Kenneth Kotsay"]Thus far my, Franklin tops them all,

I had the Franklin Hal Rugg owned. It was a good guitar but tone was not what I had hoped . Paul makes his Franklin sound like a ShoBud. Guess that was what I was looking for .
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Bill

Franklin · Posted 20 May 2018 6:14 pm

Although steel guitars have not gone through the complete electronic cycle...Guitars, Violins, Saxophones, Keyboards, etc have evolved down that road and yet prewar Martins, and the Fender, Gretch, and Gibson guitars made since then and prior to the 60's are the most costly and highly sought after instruments....I believe our older instruments will be treated the same way by its best players. The greatest guitarists, bassists, violinists, and horn players will always seek out older designed instruments because there is something worthwhile and inspirational in those instruments for creating music. That is the reason they survive the test of time.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

I miss some details for perfectly tunable "just intonated" chords regardless of pedal/lever combos – involves pulls at stop-plate level for individual strings on All-Pull changers.
Apart from that the mechanical PSG seems to be pretty "grown-up" by now, and individual players should be able to get hold of instruments to suit their taste for sound, action and playability by shoping around on the existing market.

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

Gregory Etchason · From: Georgia, USA

More likely the Steel player will disappear from the stage.
Steel tracks will simply be dubbed. Most audiences now are clueless.

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