Am I the only one who does this??? Post gain

Jordan Beyer · From: Ohio, USA

Maybe i dont get it, but why do alot of people only set their post gain on a N400 (any peavey amp) to only 6 or 7? I oviously have a powerfulful amp for a reason, why doesnt everybody turn their post gain up to ten (all the way) and get all tha5 210 watts that it can produce. im only playing at living room levels 90% of the time, with my pre gain set to 1. but my tone seems alot more rounder. Easier on the ears. Am I the only one? Or do alot of you others do it as well, why wouldnt you do it? JB

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Jordan Beyer · From: Ohio, USA

Okay. Because i see the more famous players and they dont set their post up. Or at least have it listed that way. I can not figure why
Thanks JB

ajm · From: Los Angeles

If you have either the pre or post or whatever only set to "1", there is no way you're getting "all of that 210 watts".

A lot of amps have a bright cap on the volume (pre) control. If the control is set low, the sound can be very trebly. I don't know if your amp has this, so this is amp dependent.

If it were me, I'd probably adjust both the pre and post levels to find a setting I liked. That means I'd probably start by setting the pre gain higher.

Bottom line: If you're happy with your tone, then case closed.

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

Lower pre-amp gain and higher post-eq volume, means less chance of peak-distortion in the pre/eq stages, resulting in a cleaner, "rounder", sound. As such it is a good idea to turn the post-preamp volume up and input level/gain down, unless the raised noise-floor from input/eq stages becomes a nuisance.

I don't do it with my NV112, but that's because I bypass the entire input/eq section and plug the steel (with buffer and VP) directly in after these stages. Thus, the master volume control is the only audio-level control I got on those amps.

Note that I wrote "audio-level control", as how high the "master volume control" is set does not say much about how many Watts the power-stage actually delivers to the speaker at any given time. That is controlled by the audio-signal itself.
A power-stage's amplification factor and power capability (max Wattage) is always at hand (as long as the amp is on), regardless of settings.

(Remember the "volume at 11" on old Marshall amps? Very Happy

)

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

There are a lot that set the "Master" gain or what you want to call it at max. As an ex amp tech, there is no electronic reason to do it on amps such as the Peavey's. The sound (tone) is in the preamp section, all the power amp does is amplify it. If you want to make the full power available set it at max but the pre-gain and the actual signal will determine the volume level. Setting it at max can increase the (unwanted) amp noise.

Setting it at max for "better" tone is like saying Black Emmons Push Pull guitars sound better....
Devil

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GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit

Patrick Huey · From: Nacogdoches, Texas, USA

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I almost always set both my pre and master to 10, even when playing quietly in the house. Why? Well, I've gone over all that stuff here many times before. It has to do with the volume pedal action, total available sustain, circuit linearity, tone shift, drive levels, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Suffice it to say, it's what I like, soundwise, and that's why I do it. I don't care what everyone else likes or does.

Also, if your amp makes a lot of noise when you turn it up and there's no signal going into it, you've either got a cheap amp...or some other sort of problem.

YMMV Winking

Jordan Beyer · From: Ohio, USA

Well I have a Nashville 400. It gets pretty loud, but It just seems to sound better with pre at 1 and post gain at 10, vs pre at 4 and post at 7. Maybe its just my mind playing tricks, probably not though. It wasnt an improvment I notice right when I did it, I had to play for about an hour and by the end I thought, wow, this sound seems better. The way I understood it was the post controlled the power income. Pre just took it down, but with full input. Maybe I am wrong thanks JB

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

If I'm playing just pedal steel at louder gig volumes, I generally dime the master volume, if there is one. In fact, for pedal steel, I generally dime my old Fenders (no master volume) and control with the volume pedal. And I have torn out master volumes on old Fenders, reverting back to blackface specs.

But doing double duty with guitar, I don't always find that workable because the guitar will sometimes be way too loud, no matter what I do. These days, I'm using a Fryette Power Station to tame the guitar, but sometimes even that won't bring the guitar volume of, e.g., a dimed Twin Reverb low enough and still sound right.

Also, playing at low volumes, I don't always find that master on 10, pre-gain on 1 works as well. For me, it depends on the amp. Some preamps just don't start to sound right until the gain starts to approach the middle of the range.

I find using my ears works better than any hard-and-fast rule.

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I just got home from an afternoon gig, outside. I used my new Steelaire Rack amp (and an Eminence EPS-15C speaker). I started out with my regular setting with the Gain (input) 1 set at 4 and the Master Volume at 6. The level wasn't enough for the loud band so I changed the input to 6 and the Master Volume to 10. The only thing that did was make me louder, it didn't change anything in the tone - the guitar sounded the same.
_________________
GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I rarely touch my volume pedal (if it's set up at all) but my amps are set like Donny's...sorta...with some caveats.

1. I use the lowest-output amp I get away with for a given venue, whether home, club, large hall, whatever. In 50+ years of gigs I discovered very early it was impossible to get by with just one amp type if you gig. It needs to be set for maximum clean headroom, with the controls adjusted to the room (i.e. tone controls HVE to be changed from place to place)

2.Although I don't use many master volume amps, when I do I set a balance in the controls - the power section has to drive hard enough to get full frequency response out of the speaker(s) *and* drive the tubes just short of mild saturation. The preamp is then adjusted as mentioned - to adjust to the "tone of the room", which depends on size, ceiling height, materials used on ALL surfaces, whether walls are parallel or not, the stage raised or not, and what, if anything, is mic'd - and how/with what gear.

3. Then I adjust actual "loudness" and make some tone tweaks at the guitar. My Fenders have interactive [volume/tone circuits, and I used outboard boxes with the same type circuit on every other guitar (the lack of controls on pedal steels is a mistake IMO - you can't make the same adjustments with a volume pedal or on the amp). I also use dynamic picking - I pick very lightly, usually, and dig in more and pay at different spots on each string to adjust tone, volume and sustain. Bar vibrato also affects sustain.

In small clubs I rarely needed anything bigger than a Fender Deluxe Reverb - with a full band. And that's with a clean, warm tone. If I *want* to get a bit of "hair" (saturation) all it takes is a slight nudge of the volume control (or pedal)

Regardless of the amp type - tube or solid state (but rarely digital - more in a moment about that) - this method uses the amp to best reproduce the clean tone of the guitar. And it works for ANY type of guitar.

Except for high-end Fractal Audio and Kemper models, digital amps have a problem though. They tend to get "lost" in a band situation, no matter how you set them. It's a common problem.

Anyway - my least favorite overall "guitar tone( independent of guitar type) is a high-output amp set so the equivalent is that of a Fender Twin Reverb turned up to roughly "3" - cold, thin, and `unable to drive the speakers properly.

Last - tube amp users, it's critical that you keep your amps serviced! They will not perform, well if neglected, and the majority of amps over 15 years old ARE neglected. I won't take up more space, but if you don't know what I mean please PM....
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No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional

chuck lemasters · From: Jacksonburg, WV

I'm with Jim on this one. If I set both volumes on 10, I'm afraid a bit of accidental lead-foot would finish off my already poor hearing. I practice with both volumes at 2, played a theater job last night with pre gain on 3.5 and master on 5.5. To my ear the Nashville sounds better with the pre gain up in that range.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

chuck lemasters · From: Jacksonburg, WV

Jim Sliff..I was referring to Jim Cohen's response to Donny's post. I understand exactly what you are talking about. My problem with which tube amp to carry was in my quest for a lighter load in, I always brought the amp that was one size too small for the room Very Happy

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