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Topic: Bar that is good for reverse slants? |
Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2018 11:02 am |
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It really helps to have a bullet bar with a concave depression on the end to grab your thumb and keep it from slipping as you swivel it back and forth for reverse slants...
So far I've found the Broz-o-phonic (original stainless) bar to be the only one, now marketed by Latch Lake. (The new Latch Lake black hardened version has way too much string friction for me).
This bar is a bit too long for me - at a bit over 3 inches, it just isn't in exactly the right place in my hand when swiveling it around (and lots of discussion has arrived at a bit under 3 inches as the right length even for straight bar use, at least for a 6 string bar, it seems).
I love BJS bars from my pedal steel days, and Butch says that he will be making a version of his ¾" bar with a concave depression added to it, at some point (he makes bars in batches).
Any other bars with a concavity, or tips on controlling cones that don't have it?
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2018 11:33 am
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I looked at those...looks like a small lip, not a concavity? Was thinking of ordering one, not sure the lip is deep enough to grab...
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2018 12:42 pm
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Why I need a bar with this?
I really like the reverse slant that is the guitar chord on the guitar-tuned strings - a G chord on strings 2,3,4 on fret 3. Slide it diagonally down and to the right for a VII, down and to the right again for a different VII, which also is a minor VII (it has no third), which also makes it a VI of the root 1 ½ steps up. Up and to the left (strings 1,2,3 it is a VI of its root, and a VII & minor VII of a root 1 ½ steps down (again no 3rd).
Nicely provides a slide from the straight bar chord or the forward slant IV to add texture or more interesting transitions to or from other chords...and from forward IV to a reverse IV7 on the straight bar fret
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2018 1:01 pm
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| I also favor the Latch Lake (formerly Broz-O-Phonic) stainless steel bullet bar, and also wish it was slightly shorter. But it is what it is, and I have come to the conclusion that for me it's best just to learn to live with it and work around its limitations. And, not being a man of means, the fact that you can get 4-5 Latch Lakes for the cost of one of the premium tonebars, makes it a no-brainer to me. |
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Jean-Sebastien Gauthier
From:
Quebec, Canada
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Posted 26 Mar 2018 1:25 pm
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| Steve Lipsey wrote: |
I looked at those...looks like a small lip, not a concavity? Was thinking of ordering one, not sure the lip is deep enough to grab...
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The bar I currently use is a Clinesmith and the concavity is just perfect to me to grab it with my thumb. The length of the bar is very important to me too and I guess it depend of your hand size. |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2018 1:52 pm
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OK, I'll give Clinesmith a try...is it like pedal steel, where black always sounds better than white? (🤪)
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Former Member
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2018 8:33 pm
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I can't do slants with any bullet bar, concave or not. IMO resonator bars like the Beard 20/10, Scheerhorn etc are far easier to grip and manipulate. I only use bullet bars on pedal steel - never lap or resonator.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Mar 2018 9:28 pm
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Yeah, I was a Scheerhorn bar guy until I joined the jazz band...now I really can use all the chord options possible. And using bullet bar on pedal steel, with pedals to change chords, is really the same thing as using bullet bar on dobro, with slants to change chords.
Jim Burden's phone from that thread is no longer working - I tried the email from his profile...we'll see...
Clinesmith is ordered....
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Steven Cummings
From:
Texas
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Posted 27 Mar 2018 7:04 am
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Jim... now that's funny!
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Lookin' on the sunny side.... |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 27 Mar 2018 7:18 am
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"I can't do slants with any bullet bar, concave or not. IMO resonator bars like the Beard 20/10, Scheerhorn etc are far easier to grip and manipulate. I only use bullet bars on pedal steel - never lap or resonator."
While I agree that you need a Beard/Scheerhorn type bar for resonator, I can't imagine using one for lap steel. makes moving the bar away from you much more difficult.
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Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 27 Mar 2018 12:44 pm
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I also have the Brozophonic but switched back to the Dunlop one that is slightly shorter. For reverses slants I think the length is far more important than having the concave depression at the end, the shorter the easier. But different strokes for different folks.
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https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2018 1:35 pm
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Sebastian - I hear you, but I want both a "grabbable" length AND a thumb-catching base....
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Former Member
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Posted 27 Mar 2018 2:10 pm
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I'm just a student.
I've been playing 3" and slightly longer bars for a few years, but always 3/4 thick.
Inspired by Rick Aiello getting a 2.75" long by one inch thick bar, and trying it, I ordered a Jim Burden bar at 15/16th thick by 2.75" long. (40$)
While heavier than I was used to, I have better vibrato due to the bar being shorter than my finger and not touching up against my palm. thicker is easier to hold.
Alright Steve, what is this hollowneck tricone in production??? |
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Brett Lanier
From:
Madison, TN
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Posted 27 Mar 2018 3:02 pm
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I'd say yes absolutely to finding a bar that is comfortable for your hand, etc. But also be aware that if you're solely relying on the thumb move at the back of the bar to get things moving, that could be a sign that your technique is a little heavy handed. It should be a quick and relatively effortless move, controlling the bar more so with your fingertips.
I've been using a bjs bar lately and to me there's plenty there for your thumb to grab. I also use a zirc bar from time to time which has no indent at all.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BIn2qv2DpJ2/?taken-by=crestonguitars
p.s. Feel free to file this under 'not helpful!' |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2018 3:50 pm
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Brett-
The thumb is just to push while swiveling, with the fingers as a pivot, and the fingertip at the other end of the bar...I don't bend my wrist, just swivel under it...
Ron-
Ben Bonham is a luthier in Hood River, OR, who isn't really known yet, but I'd bet he will be, in a big way...he built me a Weissenborn out of 1,200 year old Douglas Fir (top) and Black Acacia, which is a lot like koa (back, sides), after restoring a broken-up late-1920's Weissenborn for a customer and getting every measurement down...(two photos attached). Amazing sound, like angels singing...
Now he is doing a myrtle full hollow-neck tricone resonator with the form factor of a National Style 1 for me. I predict that it will have the airy, resonant, flowing sound of the Weissenborn with woody, complex tricone tones on top of that...(current photo attached, wood with instrument outline, still a way to go!)
He's made his living mostly by making $2,000 ukuleles and fine art furniture, but now is switching over to focus more on resonators of various types (he's built instruments for a long time)...his prices are way too low for the work and materials he puts into his instruments...I'd say that if anyone is in the market for something new, call him before his waiting list and prices get too inflated...(Ben Bonham (541) 490-5447‬ bensound@gorge.net)
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2018 3:59 pm
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...and here's a hollow neck tricone he built for another guy...mine will be a lot simpler in appearance...coverplate will be made out of the wood cut out of cone opening, body will have handmade rope binding matching the Weissenborn...
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Bob Russell
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 27 Mar 2018 7:33 pm
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I have a Jim Burden bullet bar that's 2 3/4" by 3/4", which I find to be just about right for 6-string lap steel and dobro. It has a deep well at the blunt end, easy to get the thumb into for slants. The bullet nose is nicely rounded for split-string slants and the surface of the bar is very slick. It's my favorite bar if I'm going to need to do much slanting.
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Lots of stringy things, many of them slidey. |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2018 1:50 pm
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Jim Burden's new phone number is 812-968-9665. He didn't know that his website wasn't up, and will get it fixed. His email is jimnjan@ymail.com.
He forgot his SGF password and couldn't change his profile to add the new info, but the email did get to him...
I've ordered a ¾ x 2 ⅞ bar with inset in the base! $40 including shipping...
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Charles Stange
From:
San Francisco, California
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Posted 28 Mar 2018 3:49 pm
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Great news ! Thank you.
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Charles 'Skip' Stange |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2018 5:30 pm
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Regarding reverse slants: have you tried a tapered bar? They really change the way your fingers handle a tone bar. Just a thought. I think a tapered bar makes control of the butt-end easier and the tip is small enough to get two adjacent strings in tune on a three string slant. Mine is 15/16-3/4 over 3-3/8 length.
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RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35 |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2018 6:23 pm
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I haven't...I seem to be doing OK on split slants with a non-tapered bar....which tapered one do you use?
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Bob Russell
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 28 Mar 2018 6:33 pm
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| Steve Lipsey wrote: |
Jim Burden's new phone number is 812-968-9665. He didn't know that his website wasn't up, and will get it fixed. His email is jimnjan@ymail.com.
He forgot his SGF password and couldn't change his profile to add the new info, but the email did get to him...
I've ordered a ¾ x 2 ⅞ bar with inset in the base! $40 including shipping... |
Glad you were able to track him down at last... and very glad that he's doing OK and still making bars. Thanks for the info.
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Lots of stringy things, many of them slidey. |
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