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Topic: Where are the split slant dobro chords? |
Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2018 2:31 pm |
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...the ones where you hit two strings at the same fret and one other string at a different fret...
I found the strings 1&2 (same fret), string 3 (one fret down) forward slant to get a full minor chord (e.g., F+D on fret 3, with A one fret down for a Dm, D-F-A).
There seems to be some reverse slant ones, but they seem harder to do - normal reverse slants are hard enough to hit accurately?
(e.g., same as above, with single string one fret up rather than down, for a Diminished chord, B-D-F)
Any suggestions?
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Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor
Last edited by Steve Lipsey on 1 Mar 2018 10:52 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Paul Arntson
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2018 2:50 pm
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One quick way to find them is make a grid of the neck and then write in all the notes. Xerox several copies. Then take a highlighter and color in all the occurrences of the notes in a particular chord.
Then go to your guitar and find where the highlighted notes are easy to play.
(And sound like what you want.)
It's also a great way to see the chord shapes all over the neck.
_________________
Excel D10 8&4, Supro 8, Regal resonator, Peavey Powerslide, homemade lap 12(a work in progress) |
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Nakos Marker
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2018 2:56 pm
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Last edited by Nakos Marker on 11 Aug 2020 8:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2018 3:00 pm
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Paul-
Sure, I do that. But benefitting from those who already have traveled further isn't a bad thing, either.
Nakos-
thanks!
-S
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2018 3:29 pm
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Hmmm....I think I found the trick?
e.g., for the Dm at fret 3, you have to press down to make string 2 sharper to make the chord right...there's no way to orient the bar (Broz-o-phonic) to get all the strings correct without doing that....might be different up further on the neck, more experiments needed....
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2018 4:40 pm
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Another question, re bars:
My broz-o-phonic has a rounded nose...the BJS Jerry Byrd version has a tapered, somewhat pointy nose (BJS also has a more rounded version like the Broz-o-phonic) ...is the tapered one somehow easier to use for this type of slant? And although BJS was really the best bar for pedal steel, is it really better for dobro/weissenborn (what I'm doing now)?
I also just tried the new version of the Broz-o-phonic, the black Latch Lake bar with "Dynamic Diffusion"...this hardened bar had incredibly high friction on the strings (phosphor bronze). I'm sending it back....
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Michael James
From:
La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
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Nikolai Shveitser
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2018 9:14 am
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Hey nakos, that bullet bar sure comes in handy sometimes, eh? 
Anyway, how about fret 8 on string 4,fret 9 on string 3,and fret 10 for string 1 and 2 for a D augmented 9?
-10-
-10-
-9--
-8--
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----
Last edited by Nikolai Shveitser on 2 Mar 2018 9:37 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 2 Mar 2018 9:17 am
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Michael-
Thanks, I've been there, done that (C6, G6, pedal steel tuning with multi benders)...and keep returning to GBDGBD...it is rich enough if you are willing to work it, like with reverse, forward, and split slants. And I like to be able to strum/rake, which really benefits from having a whole straight chord...
I do have regular open-G (DGDGBD, L->H) on my new Weissenborn, which really got me into reverse slants, having lost some of the lower forward ones...and the splits were just the next obvious move...
By the way, right now I'm playing swing & gypsy jazz in my band...another reason to be able to dip further into the chord possibilities.
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QUESTION: I'm still looking for more of the split possibilities...anybody?
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2018 12:12 pm
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| Steve Lipsey wrote: |
By the way, right now I'm playing swing & gypsy jazz in my band...another reason to be able to dip further into the chord possibilities.
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QUESTION: I'm still looking for more of the split possibilities...anybody? |
There are only the 3 or 4 splits that have already been mentioned. For the kind of music you are playing, you can apply them for different chordal effects though.
In Nako’s tab, the first chord is named Dm. But it is also F6, and Bbmaj7. The top 3 strings of his D9 could be used as an Am6, or as a partial F#m7b5, and also a partial G#7aug, which are all very Django-esque type voicings. The 4 note D13 chord should come in handy for swing stuff, and if you chop off the top note and move it up one fret it is a perfectly good A7#9.
So there’s 6 more chords without having to do any homework. That’ll be twenty bucks  |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2018 12:27 pm
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Thanks, folks! Much food for thought and fingers...
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2018 9:37 am
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Yes, I switched to bullet when I started reverse/split...I used my Stevens-type for simple forward slants for a long time, but realized quickly that bullet made reverse easier and split a LOT easier now that I've started doing those...
Been using my old lap steel broz-o-phonic for this. Loved my Scheerhorn Stevens-type bar, but had to let it go..
Loved my BJS bar for pedal steel so much that I ordered a BJS ¾' bullet bar for dobro....
Butch is going to try to make me another one with a more concave base, like the broz-o-phonic base, to make reverse slants easier to control ...some of you folks might be interested if that comes out well...
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 9:00 pm
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| How the heck are you guys able to properly intonate any slant that has 2 tones at one fret and 1 tone anywhere else? The bar is straight. Adjusting (pulling) the middle string behind the bar? What am I missing here? |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 11:41 pm
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| Brian McGaughey wrote: |
| How the heck are you guys able to properly intonate any slant that has 2 tones at one fret and 1 tone anywhere else? The bar is straight. Adjusting (pulling) the middle string behind the bar? What am I missing here? |
With a bullet nose bar, you place the nose across the top two strings and angle the bar back on the lower string. The top two strings are barred at the same fret by the nose, and the barrel hits lower string one fret down.
Last edited by Fred Treece on 7 Mar 2018 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2018 11:47 pm
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The bullet nose gets it close, then you press down to put additional pressure on the middle string to make it perfect
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 5:55 am
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So fretting is actually taking place in 3 planes, not 2, and no Stevens style bars allowed. I got it. Thanks fellows.
I'll have to check out the link to video above.
Edit: Watched Troy's session with Alan Akaka. Got it. Cool. |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 6:28 am
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| Steve Lipsey wrote: |
| The bullet nose gets it close, then you press down to put additional pressure on the middle string to make it perfect |
There we have it! thanks - and you need to know which string in the split slant to "lean on", too. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 8:47 am
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Factors that can affect the intonation of these slants include: string spacing, scale length, bar size and how much time you're willing to put in to make these moves an everyday part of your playing.
The best way to practice these is to first play each note of the slant individually. Once you have the sound of the notes that make up the given chord in your ear, try to match then exactly with the split bar slant/string pressure technique. If you add a little vibrato, in the context of a song, they audience is gonna totally buy it - perfect or not.
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Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 9:31 am Diminished/Augmented - Split or otherwise
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I haven't figured out how to get more than a two-note diminished or augmented chord - and a split would seem to be a reverse split, which is far beyond possibility (for me, anyway)...unless I missed something?
Of course, you can pick the two note version (on any combination of the pairs of relevant strings) and slide up 3 frets, to add a bit of an arpeggio effect...
But are there any 3-note diminished or augmented anywhere? The effect of that chord is sort of lost in a two-note version. It helps that the guitar players are providing the other notes, but it would be nice to have a 3rd note...
_________________
www.facebook.com/swingaliband & a few more....
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 10:20 am
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Steve,
There's a three note tritone C# dim on GBDGBD dobro at 11th fret. Fret strings 4 and 5 at 11th, play strings 3, (open), 4, 5. I use that on my version of Bud's Bounce. Granted it's only one chord because of use of the open string but it's a good one chord as C# dim is common in the key of G in old timey stuff.
I also use the sliding 3 fret tri-tone thing but picking tremolo style on 1 and 2. For example for C# dim alternate pick strings 1 and 2 at 2nd fret, slide to 5th, slide to 8th, slide to 11th, resolve at 12th.
Also forward slant strings 3 and 5, 5th string at 5th fret, 3rd string at 6th fret. I guess that's inverted but gets the message to the listener. You could three fret up or down that one too.
Like many things on dobro, musical messages have to be melodized, not harmonized, but you can still make the expression over time as opposed to harmonically all at once.
Edit: I'm sittin' here playing Bud's Bounce and found I also use forward slant on strings 3 and 4. Again inverted but effective. Three fret thingee applies again. C# dim 4th string 5th fret, 3rd string 6th fret. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 11:08 am Re: Diminished/Augmented - Split or otherwise
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| Steve Lipsey wrote: |
| I haven't figured out how to get more than a two-note diminished or augmented chord - and a split would seem to be a reverse split, which is far beyond possibility (for me, anyway)...unless I missed something?. |
See my earlier post. The augmented chord is a forward split. The are no diminished splits available in your tuning.
Brian M. - “Melodized†is now in my lexicon
Last edited by Fred Treece on 7 Mar 2018 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Brian McGaughey
From:
Orcas Island, WA USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2018 11:10 am
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OK, found another dim on strings 1 through 5. Any fret. Pull string 3 behind the bar a half tone up. IE, at 5th fret straight bar pull the root up a half tone behind the bar and there's you C# dim. The good thing about this method is you can be anywhere on the neck, slide back one fret and initiate the pull and have that diminished chord on 5 strings, bottom up= minor 3rd, diminished 5th, root, minor 3rd, diminished 5th.
I need to go to work...  |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2018 7:24 pm
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With all respect - I am totally baffled by these threads.
What style is this stuff usable in? I've played bluegrass since the 70's and played 2-note slants on gigs maybe a couple dozen times over the years but *never* a 3-note slant (every "straight" one is too out of tune for practical use).
and in Hawaiian music I play some 2-note slants, but never a 3-note one.
I guess if you play "solo" with no backup you might find use for them, but even in a "duo" ONE of those 3 notes is likely to be covered by another player and redundant.
Crowding music with duplicate notes really clutters the overall sound, and if one or more of the notes played has to be "jerry rigged" via a bar-nose or manual, "non-stopped" bend there's a high likelihood one or more will also be out of tune.
Chords with 3 or more notes in a group setting should be used VERY sparingly - if at all - especially when played on instruments without fixed intonation. "Less" is usually "more".
Again, I may be off base if solo-only work is being discussed. But in a group setting I've found those types of chords are poor choices.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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