First observation, E9 vs X6

Jeffrey McFadden · From: Missouri, USA

One of the things about C6 which I have found dissatisfying is the difficulty of getting various inversions of chords. Yes, it's doable, but... there is a certain sameness, a certain "church hymn" sound to it.

After only two days messing with E9 I'm already finding a bunch more inversions readily available and the ability to change the flavor of a given easy progression. I am very pleased with the potential I see here.

And I haven't even scratched the surface of available harmonies. I mean: two days, right?

Glad I bit the bullet. Smile

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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

My sentiments exactly! Inverting chords without having to change grips is what makes the E9th so versatile when playing music based (mostly) on major chords.

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Agreed, but not only that--having multiple inversions at a given fret by using different grips, too.

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

Spend a few minutes with the E-raise lever. Play a G-chord with 8-6-5 on the 3rd fret. Slide up to 6 with the A pedal and E-raise (F-lever) and slide up to the 10th fret A and B pedals down, all one motion. Magic. Eventually.
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1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35

Jeffrey McFadden · From: Missouri, USA

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

I find it equally interesting exploring the E9 neck for the same voicing at different locations (different grips).

For example, a simple G major inversion 5-1-3 can be found at fret 3 on strings 5-4-3, no pedals. With pedals and levers, there are 6 other ways of playing the same inversion, in the same octave range. And also one other way with no pedals.

I think there is a Lloyd Greenâ€™s quote about playing any lick or chord at least 3 different ways, being a great way to really learn the neck.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

One of the frequent things I see from lap steel players coming over to pedals is that it doesn't work right or want to reinvent the wheel. Think of the Pedal Steel as a totally new instrument and you will get further. Wanting a Pedal steel to play like a lap steel is a total waste of a good Pedal Steel. When I went from the old Oahu lap to a pedal steel I wanted to play pedal steel licks, not what I had played on the Oahu.
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Chris Walke · From: St Charles, IL

Rick Abbott · From: Indiana, USA

I heard someone say about the E9 neck, but meant C6 too, "one neck, one lifetime."

It's a deep well...but mine's only 30' deep and hand-dug, so far Muttering

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RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Wakarusa 5e3 clone
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

There's a ton of 6th sounds on the E9th neck. Things like half pedaling the A pedal, lowering the 9th string a half tone, using the B&C pedals with string 9 (A&B for Day setup), raising the 7th string a full tone, lowering the 5th string a half tone, etc, make the tuning more versatile than it first appears to be.

I put together a page full of these ideas:

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/C6th%20On%20E9th/C6th%20On%20E9th.html

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

We Day players still refer to the pedal that raises 5 & 10 to C# as the "A" pedal. Day setup is CBA.
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Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

Yes Richard,,,CBA! Jeff Newman, even though he played a universal, was a MASTER at milking triads, pieces of triads, as well as extended chords out of E9set up,,,using for the most part 3 pedals and 2 (maybe 3) knee levers. Look at his Gospel course,,,,AMAZING on every page!!!! Great CLEAN triads,,,,then unbelievable tension chords.

Jeffrey McFadden · From: Missouri, USA

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

FWIW I came from a different "school of thought" - years of dobro and 6-string...including a ton of "b-bender"...all influenced by Clarence White and Sneaky Pete.

Sneaky specifically recommended playing single notes - not chords, not two-note harmonies; and Clarence played a hybrid picking style that (except for his bluegrass playing) rarely included playing a whole chord.

I've played that way since about 1972. And when I first tried to play pedal steel it was an E9 train wreck. I kept trying though. Different guitars - still didn't "get" it.

Finally got a Fender to fool with tuned to A6 and things instantly made more sense when playing single notes (i.e. 3-note...and 2-note...("banjo rolls"). Then tried it in C6 and THAT made sense. It wasn't the lack of the "chromatic" strings, it was the other 8.

And when I finally decided to try Sneaky's B6 - which uses a different string order than D6 (if it were simply tuned up a half-step). everything was exponentially easier.

Different copedents may work better for players not playing traditional pedal steel.

It did for me. Now, after many years of playing, I really suck at it but I'm not frustrated or pissed at the guitar.

Laughing

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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Are we expecting seasoned C6th players and Pros to chime in ?

They are two different tuning's. Doesn't much matter which one you decide to nestle down with.

There are some things sitting simply right in front of you on that dang C6th that will take crazy amounts of energy to create on the E9th, but of course if we don't know what they are or where they are, how we would know ?

The C6th, 5 pedal tuning with 2 , 3 or 5 levers is nothing short of simply brilliant. But it is not PLAYED the same as an E9th tuning. IF we are trying to play them the same way physically, especially right hand wise we will not win the battle. Its not an AB Pedal type of thing and it's not supposed to be. Thats why we have two commonly accepted standard Pedal Steel tuning's.

Thats why we have D10 Pedal Steel Guitars !

The conversation is stating that with a lever on the E9th we can make some nice changes. TRUE.

Is that not the same as having perhaps 5 levers on the C6th, to make embellishments or changes ? Or is this only only true on the E9th ? OR is it that we are not familiar enough with the lower 10 to release the power ?

I'm reading above that many love the common E9th grips, ok, me too, but we do know that there is a 9th string and a 7th string right ? Those are not part of any common grip. Then it seems weekly we get questions about what to do with that silly 2nd string. IF we are happy living in the common grip world , 10,8,6...8,6,5...6,5,4....5,4,3... then it's a good life but it's not a complete life. To expand our knowledge we have to change grips, just like on the C6th.

Use the back roads to get to the grocery store, the scenery is different.
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Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Many years back I posted the famous turn for Night Life played on the E9th. I spent many hours dialing it in, it was darn close. I felt pretty good that I worked it out. A few days later I got contacted by one of the resident pro's, I'll leave the name out but we all know who he is. He told me that he enjoyed my work up of Night Life on the E9th , he complimented me for my ambition and ability to do it, I felt pretty good. THEN, he dropped the bomb and said, imagine if you spent that energy on the C6th tuning, where that phrase COMES FROM and is laying right in front of you ,using very little energy, rather than spending hours working it out on the E9th ? I laughed and agreed.

The E9th is for certain capable of many things , we all know this to be true. But if we are attempting to play pieces using large amounts of energy and movements over playing the same thing downstairs on the C6th , which requires very little energy , maybe we should rethink what we are doing.

I am not by any stretch an accomplished C6th tuning player, dangerous is the word I would use. Over the past few months I was forced to stay home and I decided to spend time with the lower ten. My good pal John Swain is pretty savvy with the C6th and I would call him it seems daily. I took what I already knew, added some elements that John told me, studied a bit from a Herby Wallace program and 2 or 3 months later, I'm just here to tell you, the light bulb is shining bright.

While many here are wanting to play C6th sounding phrases on the E9th, which is great, me too, I went just the opposite, I'm playing songs that were entirely on the E9th down on the C6th.

It's a different style of playing and execution for certain, unlike the E9th, and we would be remiss by not understanding or recognizing the simplicity of where things lay in relationship to each other.

Why is it we think that the worlds greatest players, Emmons, Chalker, White, Anderson, Jernigan , Charleton, Franklin, Johnson..etc and on and on are such brilliant C6th players that we want to emulate ? They make it look so easy !

Maybe because they are spending time creating the music rather than spending excessive energy reaching the music.
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jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Jeffrey McFadden · From: Missouri, USA

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

One thing E9 wonâ€™t do is low register accompaniment, like a guitar or C6 neck. Not unless you have an Extended E9 setup anyway.

There are many ways to play that progression though, including using the 0 fret positions for D, E, G, and A. That will give you the lowest register possible, plus it means you donâ€™t have to watch your bar position while youâ€™re singing. Youâ€™ll have to be a good palm blocker though.

Chris Reesor · From: British Columbia, Canada

Sounds to me like you could be a good candidate for a U12, Jeffrey.
How is the back neck on your Carter set up, btw?

Question for Fred T. : What is the 0 fret G maj position you mention?
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Jeffrey McFadden · From: Missouri, USA

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

The side of the guitar that faces the audience is customarily referred to as the front. The back neck is the one closest to you (the player).

I think b0b was asking why A6 instead of C6 (the most common 6th tuning on pedal steel).

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Jeffrey McFadden · From: Missouri, USA

Jeffrey McFadden · From: Missouri, USA

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