Right Hand Shape

Jason Putnam · From: Tennessee, USA

I have gotten into a bad habit of positioning my hand flat when playing. When trying to play faster passages, it really shows! Now that I realize I need to curl my hand more, I canâ€™t seem to break the habit. Itâ€™s like Iâ€™m starting over from square one again. Ahh the frustration.
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1967 Emmons Bolt On, 1995 Mullen PRP 3x5,Nashville 112, JOYO Digital Delay, Goodrich Volume Pedal, Livesteel Strings

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

Nothing gets an argument started quicker than advocating for one right hand shape over another, except for tuning.

There have been lots of extremely good players that use a flatter hand shape. That feels awful to me, but humans have an amazing ability to adapt. I don't understood why someone would adapt a stressed, tensed hand position when they first sit down at a steel, but many do.

If lack of speed is your only problem, consider the speed with which some of the flat hand players seem to get things done. Maybe the lack of speed is not related to your hand position.

Having said that, anyone coming to me for lessons is going to be told to look at videos of Buddy Emmons for ideal right hand shape.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Study and practice your Right Hand Alpha video. If you don't already have it, pick one up from www.jeffrancollege.com

You'll also find that with the Jeff method, it's easier to maintain curled hand shape during speed picking if you just alternate between middle finger and thumb.

Kevin Fix · From: Michigan, USA

Your right hand should have a arch to it and on a bit of a angle. I block with my knuckles and picks. Their would be no way I could play with my hand flat.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

If you can get the picks to contact the strings in the right way hand shape might not be a real problem for you.

Feel free to contact me and we can have a look at it over skype.
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Bob

Don R Brown · From: Rochester, New York, USA

Remember too that not all of us are made identicaly. There are slight variations in our bodies and sometimes what works for most does not work for all.

In watching videos, it's amazing how often you'll see a truly great player doing something that by conventional wisdom is "wrong".
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Many play better than I do. Nobody has more fun.

Jay Jessup · From: Charlottesville, VA, USA

[quote="Paul Sutherland"]I don't understood why someone would adapt a stressed, tensed hand position when they first sit down at a steel, but many do. quote]

To me what Paul said is the key to playing anything well and is a topic that rarely gets discussed. In my opinion, one needs to reduce tension as much as possible in all muscles to play well. Hold your hand flat with fingers curled under and feel the tension in your finger and hand muscles then let your hand gradually relax and the muscle tension goes away. Maybe that thought will help you come up with a playing position that gets your right hand in better shape?

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I don't know where you get that Ian. Nothing like that is in the Right Hand Alpha video. Jeff never endorsed nor played flat handed. Always with the peaked knuckle rolled over to the meaty side of the hand as discussed in this previous thread.
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=196865&start=25

This is mine, but it's pretty close to what Jeff and Buddy used.

It doesn't change with the neck choice or anything else. It's what he used and taught.

I was responding to the issue that Jason stated concerning having trouble maintaining his curved hand position. My intent was to suggest solutions to that. This is what the Newman method teaches. Whatever method he chooses is up to him. I'm just addressing the issue he brought up. If this is not the information he's looking for, my bad.

You're all free to use whatever method you want...but stay with it. Trying to change back and forth among different techniques is a bad idea.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

You're right of course, Jerry. I guess it's relative and by calling it "flat" I was setting myself up for the thing I am sure of, that to achieve the C6 technique of picking two strings with the fingers and raking the two (or three) below with the thumb he advocates a shape which is slightly more peaked.

I didn't mean flat like Joe Wright. Right Hand Alpha got me palm blocking reliably and I would recommend it to anyone.
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Jason Putnam · From: Tennessee, USA

I read over the older post. I do always have problems with the Dunlop picks catching the strings. I have order some from Jeffran but they are on back order I think. Thanks for all the input. On another note, I looked back at all my older forum posts, I have been learning this beast for six years now! I had no idea it had been that long since I bought my first steel. Wow, where does the time go?
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1967 Emmons Bolt On, 1995 Mullen PRP 3x5,Nashville 112, JOYO Digital Delay, Goodrich Volume Pedal, Livesteel Strings

Dave Magram · From: San Jose, California, USA

Jason,

A lot of good points have been made here already.

I think a lot of confusion about hand-shapes is because there are three major picking styles used by the top players that are very different from each other, and thus require very different hand-shapes:

1. Palm-blocking: This is the style used by Lloyd Green, Tom Brumley, Hal Rugg, Jeff Newman and many other master steel guitarists, in which the edge of the hand (and sometimes the little finger, either extended or curled-under) is used to block the strings. This means that the edge of oneâ€™s hand must stay very close to the strings to block efficiently. (Doug Jernigan uses a unique variation on this in which he used his folded-under ring finger for blocking.)

2. Pick-blocking: In this style, the blocking is done not with the edge of oneâ€™s hand, but with the picks themselves, oneâ€™s fingertips, and oneâ€™s thumb-edgeâ€”requiring a very different hand-shape from palm blocking. This is the style most associated with Paul Franklin and Joe Wright.
Barbara Mandrell learned how to pick-block from Norm Hamlet, who learned it from Vance Terry. I believe that Ralph Mooney mainly pick-blocked.

3. Buddy Emmonsâ€™ â€œhybrid styleâ€, in which he blocked finger-picked notes with the tip of his ring-finger (like a pick-blocker), and blocked his thumb-picked notes with the edge of his hand (like a palm-blocker). This â€œhybridâ€ style requires a different hand-shape from both pick-blocking and palm-blocking, and was also used by Buddy Charleton.

For more info on Emmonsâ€™ hybrid style, check out:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=323447&highlight=

If you watch videos of the players mentioned above with these three picking styles in mind, I think it will be easier to understand why the hand-shapes are different.

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In his â€œRight Hand Alphaâ€ video, Jeff Newman taught the palm-blocking style that he and many other well-known players used. Iâ€™ve heard that Jeff originally discouraged his students from pick-blocking, but as Paul Franklin became more well-known, Jeff changed his stance on pick-blocking.

I hope this is helpful.

-Dave

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

I guess I misunderstood your meaning Ian.

Good luck with your picking Jason. 6 yrs. eh? Time flies when you're having fun though!

Looks like you have a couple of nice guitars to keep you busy. Happy pickin'!

FWIW, I don't have any new Jeff fingerpicks, but I do have a used pair I'd be happy to send you so you can get used to them while you're waiting on your order if you want.

The blades are worn down, but they're still usable.
Just let me know if you want them. JO.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

You don't have a "bad habit". But it sounds like either by reading too many "opinions" or listening to other players you've become convinced you do. A flatter hand doesn't slow you down.

Find a comfortable position that doesn't cause strain. Use it. Anyone that tells you "The correct position is..." or "you need to do it *this way" is just trying to force their method - or one they learned from a "steel God", and is therefore (in their mind) canon - on you. Try it if you want, but if it feels weird or hurts (especially if it hurts!) there is NO "law" that says you have todo it that way.

Out of all the pedal steel players on the planet there are FAR more that have found positions on their own than through a video lesson

some players have fingers shaped so that flatter positions feel more comfortable and work better that way. Don't worry about it.

Re picks - Dunlop fingerpicks are absolute junk IMO. The "curve" is uncomfortable and an catch on strings. I flattened them out for years, then used Nationals - but finally settled on Sammy Shelor picks a couple years ago. Expensive but worth it and make a HUGE difference.
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