Should I Buy an Emmons Push/Pull? - What's the Real Scoop?

Tom Vollmer · From: Hamburg, Pennsylvania, USA

I first experienced an Emmons Guitar in 1967.I had been playing a Fender 1000 and had just learned of the Emmons guitar. I called the Emmons Company and asked where I could see and play the guitar. Ron Lashley gave me a phone number about 70 miles away. I called a guy Stan Gramacki who I got to know and befriend later and made plans to see him and try the guitar. I sat down and played it and the sound and difference from the Fender was like a hamburger to a filet migion.I had to have one and somehow managed to get $1000 together. It was a Black D-10 no Knees and 8 pedals and as I know now it was a wrap around.
Played it about 10 years played a lot of rough bar jobs beat the works out of the guitar and got my second Emmons, it was used but in great shape. It was a bolt on and I had made knees for my first Emmons ,removed them and put on my second PP.
Both these PP 's had killer sound. Over the years I have owned 5 or 6 PP, also a Le Grande SD 10 and currently have a 1970 D 10 Fatback with Lawerence humbuck pickups and a SD Le Grande III.
My thoughts and opinions All PP's I have ever played sounded good except one. Some sound better than others. I have had as many as 4 at a time and all sound a little different. The PP sound better than the Le Grandes I,ve had. Also I think some Sho Buds are close to that sound. As far as Buddy, my hero playing an EMCI my friend Alan Van Why has one that sounds great. I have played 2 MCI welded frame and they were not near the tone of the PP. All that being said my main giging guitar is my LeGrande III
because of combination my age 81 and guitar weight.
The Le Grande has a slight less tone than the PP
but plays very good. All the Emmons I have owned stayed in good tune and needed minimal adjustments.
It is a shame that they folded as the guitars were very good.

Steven Paris · From: Los Angeles

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

I guess the other observation should be, Emmons guitars were all PUSH PULLS until the mid 80's or something like that.

Evidently, until the internet came around, all those Emmons players from the 60's thru the 80's didn't know they were playing a "nightmare" Instrument !

Thank god for the Internet ! Laughing

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Glenn Suchan · From: Austin, Texas

Hi, Jim,

Many other really good players (as well as reliable, regarding their opinions) have given very good responses. I'm, on the other hand, just a steel hack that has been fortunate to have owned three Emmons p/p guitars. I stilll own one - my only steel.

The first thing I'll say, if you find a push/pull guitar that you're interested in buying, if possible, before you buy it - PLAY IT. Also, play it without effects. By doing so, you'll be able to hear the unaltered tone of the guitar played by your hands. That'll be the best way to help you decide if you like the tone.

If the tone is what you like, but the guitar doesn't feel right to you (i.e.) pedals and knee levers are exceedingly hard to activate or string pulls don't go to or return to pitch, don't write off the guitar. As Herb has stated, many of these old p/p's have been tinkered with by "self-declared p/p experts". Of the three push pull guitars I've owned, two were bought from honest, out-of-state sellers. The guitars were in good shape and perfectly playable, but the first thing I did when I received these guitars was to give them to a reliable p/p mechanic to have them gone over and adjusted to my requirements. It was money well spent. The late Bobby Bowman adjusted my guitars. When I got them back from him they played very smoothly and the pedal and knee lever actuation pressure was not any different from the Sierra all-pull guitar that I owned at the time. With that said, the p/p's retained the responsiveness to my playing that I feel is one of the major differences between a p/p and an all-pull guitar. In my experience, the design of the p/p allows the player to feel the mechanical response of the instrument better than with an all-pull. It's like the p/p is alive and responds well to the nuances of the player's technique - like the guitar is your partner helping you express what's in your soul. As good as my Sierra guitar was (I happily played it on gigs for 10 years), it never gave me that feel.

My most recent p/p acquisition (as I stated above, the only guitar I still own), a 1977 vintage D10, was bought in 2003 and adjusted by Bobby Bowman. In the 15 years since then, aside from periodic minor lubing and cleaning, the guitar plays as well now as it did when Bobby gave it back to me. Also, by keeping the same string brand and gauges on the guitar, I rarely have to do any tuning at the endplate - just very infrequently a little touch here and there.

Any way, back to your questions:

1. Depends (see the paragraphs above)
2. TRUE - (I think less maintenance if properly adjusted)
3. TRUE - (I think more stable if properly adjusted)

Jim, I don't know where you live in Texas. However, I've read that Forumite, C F Holden, in Austin does great work on p/p's. I've also heard the he was mentored in that skill by Bobby Bowman.

C F, if you're reading this feel free to confirm what I've said.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn
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Steelin' for Jesus

Jim Cooley · From: The 'Ville, Texas, USA

All,

First, I apologize for not replying to at least some of your posts sooner or more frequently. I don't want anyone to get the impression that I'm not grateful. The opposite is true. I don't feel that anything I say can adequately express my appreciation. To be clear, no one complained about my failure to fully reply sooner than this. I just feel I owe you all this much, especially in light of the topic and the effort everyone put forth to help an intermediate level steel guitar hacker and push/pull pilgrim (maybe my new YouTube name?) like me.

I received many replies to this posting. There are the obvious open forum postings, but I also received several PMs and emails. There were phone conversations, text messages exchanged, and at least a couple of personal conversations at the recent Texas Steel Guitar Association Jamboree. I wound up with a ton of information to digest and consider. It has all probably been said before, but now itâ€™s readily available, all in one place, or thereabout. There were also some points that were fresh or restated in such a way as to lend new perspective to the discussion. It has all been extremely valuable, especially since I have no experience with push/pulls, and in light of the fact that I made a down payment on a new steel at TSGA.

As I said in my initial posting, I was extremely hesitant to post this. I didnâ€™t want to rekindle age-old arguments and make what sometimes seems like a civil war even hotter. In that regard, I didnâ€™t interpret one syllable as being rude or snarky. I took everyoneâ€™s responses as being open, honest, heartfelt, and professional. Some replies came from persons who are very respected in the steel guitar and music world. Thatâ€™s very flattering. I believe this is exactly what b0b envisioned when he established The Forum. Thanks again everybody and thank you, b0b.

Oh yeah, results? Decisions? Well, unless unforeseen circumstances develop I will buy a push/pull. I have my eye on one or two, and one or two slipped by while I was ruminating. Yes, I might discover that theyâ€™re not for me. On the other hand, I might realize what some self-professed-and-proud â€œpush/pull snobsâ€ have been saying since the dawn of Buddy Emmons. Either way, it will be a journey well worth the effort. I hope. Thanks again, and again, and again, everybody. Oh, and if anyone has any more input, please keep it coming.

Thanks, all yâ€™all. Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

John Goux · From: California, USA

It is not the tone, it is the sustain. They sing to you.

The â€œraises trump lowersâ€ of the PP changer is an advantage. You can have G# to F# lower on Str 6, and in AB pedals down you donâ€™t loose your root when you raise String 1.

I donâ€™t understand why people think they sound bright. To me they sound like a sax or clarinet. More meat than the typical AP.

I have a Rittenberry SD10 with an Emmons single coil. It is so close in tone and sustain to my PP(same pickup)that I doubt the listener could tell the difference. And has all the advantages of AP.

John

Marc Orleans · From: New York, USA

I got a 71 fatback that was set up by Lynn Stafford several years ago.

I love the guitar. It's very stable and I've had to do very little in the way of adjustments to keep it so. It stays in tune and basically I tune at the key head and very rarely have to tune the raises and lowers.

I'm no expert but I've toured with it and recorded with it. It's an awesome guitar. She's heavy and for practical reasons I am looking at s/10 AP guitars for gigging but I don't think I'd ever want to part with this guitar.

Glad you are getting one. I think you'll like it and that you live near competent techs you should be good to go if you ever need work done on it. Also it seems that they hold their value so if you decide it's not for you then you can turn the guitar over pretty easily.

I guess I'm not adding anything new other than wishing you well in obtaining a good one!
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D10 '71 Emmons Pushpull, D8 '55 Fender Stringmaster, 1940s Gibson 6 string lap steel, 90s dobro USA Gibson.

Eric Philippsen · From: Central Florida USA

My 2 cents......

I'm just a local player and really, after all these years, I'm not that accomplished. But I get by enough to play regularly. And a push-pull is my go-to steel for that.

In my years I think I've owned maybe 20 or more push-pulls. When nobody was buying them, I did because I was in the situation where that was possible for me. Over the decades I'd hear of one for sale, jump in the car, drive and get it. I have some experience with them.

I guess there's not much I can add to what other push-pull owners have posted. That being said, a push-pull, properly set-up and adjusted, sounds amazing They definitely have the "cut-thru." That is, the tone that cuts through any mix.

I think every 6-string player should have a Tele, preferably a nice older one. Likewise, I think every steeler's stable should have a push-pull in it.

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

So, a question I have (and please pardon me if this has been asked and answered before) is, why doesn't anyone build push/pulls anymore? And, (another stupid question) was Emmons the only company that built them - I'm assuming it was.Sorry id these are stupid questions but I've always wondered.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I've heard the push-pull takes more time to build than the all pull guitars, so they cost more in labor. The patent on the changer design has almost certainly expired, so someone could start up again. Promat steels, made in Slovenia, have push-pull changers.

A push-pull changer has some inherent limitations that an all pull guitar doesn't have. So more exotic pedal changes are possible on an all pull guitar.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Thanks Paul and Mike. I've read good things about Promat as well. It's a rather coveted brand too isn't it?

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Only 26 Promts were ever made.
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Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Wow! Super rare - like a Crocker in the motorcycle world.

Ron Grant · From: Texas, USA

HOPEFULLY LEFTY PROMAT #27 WILL BE MADE THANKS TO MR. LYNN STAFFORD.

Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

Ron Funk · From: Ballwin, Missouri

Getting back to the original question....

Should I Buy an Emmons Push /Pull?

Yes.

Jerry Warner · From: Charleston, West Virginia, USA

Go for the pushpull you won't be sorry, Bought two in 1967 at 680.00 each no knees and black.

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Iâ€™ve been watching this thread and have refrained from commenting because Iâ€™m not sure that I can add anything else thatâ€™s valuable but if youâ€™re still undecided I will add this:

Iâ€™ve been playing steel since I was 12 years oldâ€”-Iâ€™m 55 now and I purchased my first PP within the past 6 months. WOW!!! The tone and sustain(especially above the 15th fret) is unbelievable. The whole band noticed it immediately. I never thought Iâ€™d find a better sounding/sustaining/stable guitar as my All Pull but I was wrong. When Tracy comes on for soundcheck he looks for the Rosewood guitar. It needs to be cleaned up but Iâ€™m afraid to ship it anywhere. Iâ€™ve never felt that way about a guitar. The guys hear me playing things I havenâ€™t previously played and thatâ€™s because itâ€™s become a collaboration between me and the axe. In different environments it responds differently in a beautiful way. The Note separation raises the hair on my arms. Yes, Iâ€™m sacrificing splits but I can make do without them and Iâ€™ll keep an All Pull in the herd but I wish Iâ€™d found a good PP 40 years ago.

So, thank you Jody Cameron for encouraging me to try one; thank you Rick Price for helping me to find a good one; Iâ€™m grateful for each time I get to play it. I hope I have many more years to work together with her. Iâ€™m thinking of naming her Princess. Never thought of naming a guitar before.

Good luck to you and take care,
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RETIRED

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Russ Tkac · Posted 8 Apr 2018 11:03 am

I had two. They were solid, had great tone and stayed in tune. Why did I sell them ... beats me. I can't keep everything and the desire for something else got the better on me I guess. Smile

Jim Cooley · From: The 'Ville, Texas, USA

Well I did it. It arrived today. And so the journey begins. Thanks again everyone for your feedback. It was invaluable, and a textbook example of the resource that is The Steel Guitar Forum.

Ron Whitworth · From: Yuma,Ariz.USA Yeah they say it's a DRY heat !!

Good for you Jim - give it a try.

And Marty said " Iâ€™ve been playing steel since I was 12 years oldâ€”-Iâ€™m 55 now and I purchased my first PP within the past 6 months. WOW!!!
The tone and sustain(especially above the 15th fret) is unbelievable. The whole band noticed it immediately.
I never thought Iâ€™d find a better sounding/sustaining/stable guitar as my All Pull but I was wrong.
When Tracy comes on for sound check he looks for the Rosewood guitar. It needs to be cleaned up but Iâ€™m afraid to ship it anywhere.
Iâ€™ve never felt that way about a guitar. The guys hear me playing things I havenâ€™t previously played and thatâ€™s because itâ€™s become a collaboration between me and the axe.
In different environments it responds differently in a beautiful way. The Note separation raises the hair on my arms.
Yes, Iâ€™m sacrificing splits but I can make do without them and Iâ€™ll keep an All Pull in the herd but I wish Iâ€™d found a good PP 40 years ago."

Way to go Marty !! YOU heard & felt the difference!!
Enjoy it .. Ron
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"Tone is in the hands. Unless your wife will let you buy a new amp. Then it's definitely in that amp."

We need to turn the TWANG up a little

It's not what you play through, it's what you play through it.

They say that tone is all in the fingers...I say it is all in your head Smile

Some of the best pieces of life are the little pieces all added up..Ron

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Kevin Johnson · From: New Jersey, USA

T have a beautiful black D10 from 1975. I bought it from a guy right here on the forum around five years ago. It was set up by Billy Cooper if I recall. It is the nicest, richest sounding steel I've ever played. People may try to discourage you saying it's more involved to tune by the flip side is that they stay in tune much longer and usually it's just a little fine tuning right before you play and you're good for the whole gig

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