INSTRUCTION STRINGS ACCESSORIES MUSIC LINKS
 Visit Our Catalog at SteelGuitarShopper.com for Steel Guitars, Strings, Instruction, Music and Accessories 
Forum Index
where steel players meet online
The Steel Guitar Forum

Post new topic New player here with rus-ler 3x1 tuning question
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Reply to topic
Author Topic:  New player here with rus-ler 3x1 tuning question
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 11:15 am     Reply with quote

Hello All, I just got my hands on a Rus-ler 10 string 3x1 and I'm excited to start my steel guitar journey! Attached is a pic of the tuning chart. Can someone help me figure this out? In the case it had a note saying the pedals were set up as 3 1 2.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 11:29 am     Reply with quote

Here's a pic of my steel.. Does anyone else have one of these?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 11:36 am     Reply with quote

I'm really sorry but there is absolutely nothing about that setup that is even close to right ('right' meaning a reasonable commonly accepted standard that has evolved over the years and is what all teaching materials are based on).

If you intend to work with a teacher or with books & tapes, you need to get this to a good tech and have it set up to something more conventional which will involve changing every pedal and the lever.

If you intend to invent an approach to pedal steel, well---

It's a drag but I have no idea what the previous owner was thinking. Maybe he knew what he was doing.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 11:38 am     Reply with quote

I thought it was messed up but would like to get it set up somehow....btw it doesn't sound out of tune and I can play along with tunes no problem. Just don't really want to start on a wrong set up.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 11:42 am     Reply with quote

I know nothing of the undersides of a Rus-ler, otherwise I'd try to help you. If it's anything like the ZB (to which it is related) then it's not going to be as 'easy' as a modern steel to do major changes on.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 11:47 am     Reply with quote

Here's a pic of the underside.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 12:16 pm     Reply with quote

Much cleaner and simpler than I feared.

This is the most common basic 3 + 1. If you had another puller and rod, you could also lower string 4 along with string 8 with the lever. It is possible that you can get these parts.


View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 12:32 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks Jon,
cleaner and simpler sound good. I'll get parts if i can find them.
Can I move the pedals to operate different strings easy enough? I can't seem to find any links on doing that...
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 12:41 pm     Reply with quote

Post a pic of the changer end of the underside and of the changer from the other side of the end plate (from the outside of the guitar).
Then I can tell you how easy it might be. But the basic answer from the one pic is yes, you can change what the pedals do.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 12:58 pm     Reply with quote

View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 12:59 pm     Reply with quote

View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 1:25 pm     Reply with quote

Ok. The good news is that everything is best-case scenario. I see no snags.

But the work that this involves requires a basic understanding of how the steel works and even more important, a basic mechanical aptitude.

And if/when you complete the conversion, it still may not intonate properly because I cannot give good advice on which holes in the pullers (bellcranks) and the changer to select. The proper choice is an important part of the process.

Maybe someone else knows this guitar and can give guidance regarding the choices of holes.

Your procedure will involve:

--- loosen whatever is holding the rods inside the bellcrank (I can't see it but there must be a set screw)

--- from the changer end, pull out the rods

--- loosen the screws that fasten the bellcranks to the cross shaft

--- slide the bellcranks so that they align with the changer fingers that associate with the strings on the chart above Pedal A bellcranks will line up with strings 5 & 10....Pedal B with 3 & 6....Pedal C with 4 & 5) . Tighten them down.

--- re-insert the rods. Raises (all of the pedal changes) will use the holes in the changer that are closer to the top of the guitar. Tighten the set screws in the bellcrank leaving a little bit of slack. Do not snug the rods up so that they are firmly held between the changer and the bellcrank. 1/16" play is good.

--- the knee lever rods (lowers) will use the changer holes that are closer to the bottom of the guitar (the floor, as the guitar stands upright)

This is the grunt work. The fine tuning can be a lot more challenging. You can read my tutorial at the top of the Pedal Steel page regarding some of the finer points of tuning pedals and levers and the common mistakes.


I am not encouraging you to dive in without knowing what you are doing. There are many experienced players for whom this job would be out of the question. But with general mechanical ability, this can be done.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 1:48 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks very much for your time Jon,
I'll give it a try....I have a friend here who will help with the mechanical ability and see this job as a challenge.
Hopefully someone who has had this guitar can chime in too so I can get on the right track.
Cheers
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Danny Letz


From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 4:09 pm     Reply with quote

I had one just like that best I remember. It was my first guitar. It wasn't a bad guitar. I think mine had 3 and 4. I think they are someway connected to Chuck Backs Desert Rose guitars. Like maybe he bought out the parts or something. I think Norm Hamlett with Merle Haggard played one for a while, however it looked different. I guess a different model. You might have to build some rods or something, but I bet you can get the normal ABC,s and at least lower your E's and you can play a lot of stuff.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 5:39 pm     Reply with quote

thanks Danny,
I'm going to read up on all I can find and give it a shot.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bobby D. Jones


From:
West Virginia, USA
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 6:31 pm     New player here with a Rusler 3 in 1 Reply with quote

It looks like you have everything you will need to set the guitar up properly. 2 pulls per pedal and 2 for the knee lever. Use the rods on the same pedal they are on now, They are cut to proper length for each pedal. The Bell Cranks look like MSA clone and very easy to work on. Hint, Working on my MSA's an extra hex wrench for the set screws that lock the rods to the Bell Cranks is handy. You have to cut the short side real short to get it between the close together Bell Cranks on a regular C pedal set up
Good Luck in getting it set up and playing.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 7:08 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks for your help Bobby.
I'm going to get at it this week.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bob Carlucci


From:
Candor, New York, USA
Post Posted 12 Feb 2018 9:12 am     Reply with quote

John,, If you ever want to take the drive down into NY state, I would be happy to set it up with the standard E9 changes for you, and show you exactly how its done, step by step.. Free of charge, while you wait and watch .. I'm retired, have the time, and really don't need the money for labor at this point in my life.. I'd be happy to help you out. All it will cost you is the gas, tolls, and a day... Thats a modern , good looking 2 up 2 down changer, adjustable return springs and all... not what I expected on a student model. Not sure if its original to the guitar, but it looks like a guitar that can easily have additional knee levers put on which is a GOOD thing!... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!

no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post Posted 12 Feb 2018 9:43 am     Reply with quote

I suggest that you take the the guitar to Bob and let him set it up properly for you.

Winnie Winston's book, https://www.amazon.com/Pedal-Steel-Guitar-Book-CD/dp/082560169X is written for guitars with 3 pedals and 1 knee lever. It's a good one to help you get started.
_________________
My steels are Magnificent! Stupendous! Awesome!
-----------
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 12 Feb 2018 11:00 am     Reply with quote

Thanks Bob! I thank you very much for the offer but I can't get away right now. I think I should order another knee lever and give that a try too.
I did however put it all together this morning and it has went pretty smooth so far. I moved all the rods and now I'm on to tuning. A and b pedal are in perfect tune now. Need to work on the C pedal and knee lever now as they aren't tuning up/down right now.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 12 Feb 2018 11:06 am     Reply with quote

Should I tighten these. A and b pedals are loose ....but in tune. C is tighter.
Thx


Last edited by John Law on 12 Feb 2018 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Law


From:
Ontario, Canada
Post Posted 12 Feb 2018 11:24 am     Reply with quote

thanks Mike, I'm going to order that book for sure if I can't find a downloadable copy..( I want it ASAP lol )

Question: my knee lever is hardly moving the tuning. Should I change the angle of the finger that the rod is attached to. It's on a 45 degree angle and the others aren't tilted that much. You can see it in a pic two posts above.
There's four holes on each finger that the rods attach too....how do I know which hole to attach the rod. ( I just left mine the way they were only because I don't really know what the heck I'm doing Smile

I think I'm close to getting this up and running!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bob Carlucci


From:
Candor, New York, USA
Post Posted 12 Feb 2018 11:29 am     Reply with quote

John Law wrote:
thanks Mike, I'm going to order that book for sure if I can't find a downloadable copy..( I want it ASAP lol )

Question: my knee lever is hardly moving the tuning. Should I change the angle of the finger that the rod is attached to. It's on a 45 degree angle and the others aren't tilted that much. You can see it in a pic two posts above.

I think I'm close to getting this up and running!


Hard to say why the steep angle is there, but typically, you want a straight pull on that type of pull tab..
I would note where the tabs are right now so you can return them to the same spot if need be, and then loosen the lock bolt and get those pull tabs straight.. No way that setup is supposed to be that way... Straighten them and see how it reacts..

How far are you from Steel Guitars Canada?
http://www.steelguitarscanada.com/
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!

no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......


Last edited by Bob Carlucci on 12 Feb 2018 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Bob Carlucci


From:
Candor, New York, USA
Post Posted 12 Feb 2018 11:37 am     Reply with quote

btw, don't order anything until the guitar is up and running, and plays easily enough, and stays in tune well enough.. Be sure of exactly what you are dealing with before spending more money.. There will be plenty of stuff to get started on with 3 and 1, and when you are pretty familiar with those basic changes, then you can consider adding on... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!

no gear list for me.. you don't have the time......
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 12 Feb 2018 11:39 am     Reply with quote



Ideally you want the bellcrank more upright. Its arc is best between 11 oclock and 1 oclock (very approximately).

I cannot see what the mechanical stop for the lever is. You may want to back it off to increase the amount of travel.


Check out the C pedal stop. It appears that it needs to be backed off.




I do not understand what you are describing re: tight & loose on the pedaals.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website

All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Jump to:  

Our Online Catalog
Strings, CDs, instruction,
steel guitars & accessories

www.SteelGuitarShopper.com

Steel Guitar Music
Instrumental steel guitar CDs for your permanent collection
www.SteelGuitarMusic.com

BIAB Styles
Ray Price Shuffles
for Band-in-a-Box

by Jim Baron

Please review our Forum Rules and Policies

The Steel Guitar Forum
148 South Cloverdale Blvd.
Cloverdale, CA 95425 USA

Support This Forum

advertisement