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Post new topic Can anybody figure out this copedent? It's crazy!!!
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Author Topic:  Can anybody figure out this copedent? It's crazy!!!
Mark Greenway


From:
Lake Kiowa, Texas
Post Posted 10 Feb 2018 4:52 pm     Reply with quote

Carter 12 string with 4 pedals and 5 knees

D pedal lowers 1st, 4th, & 9th strings 1/2 step

A pedal raises 2nd, 5th

B pedal lowers 4th

C pedal lowers 3rd, 7th

LKL raises 3rd, 7th, 9th, lowers 11th

V lowers 2nd, 6th, 10th

LKR lowers 3rd, 7th (full step and a half),

RKL raises 4th, 8th,

RKR lowers 5th,

Does this tuning make any sense to anyone?
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Rick Abbott


From:
Indiana, USA
Post Posted 10 Feb 2018 5:00 pm     Reply with quote

What are the strings tuned to open? Or, do you not know that?

Those changes must be relative to some open tuning, or another. Looks like a guitar for a very individual individual.
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RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Gibson Console Grande, Lazy River Wiessenborn
Session 400, Bassman Amp W/Altec 418,
1953 Stromberg-Carlson AU-35
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Mark Greenway


From:
Lake Kiowa, Texas
Post Posted 10 Feb 2018 6:20 pm     Reply with quote

Yes, I don't know what the open tuning is. It sounds out of tune. The previous owner has passed away.

I figured someone on the forum might recognize the set up.

The previous owner was a very good player. I've heard him playing on an album.

Someone mentioned that it might be Bud Carter's tuning. So, what would that tuning be, I wonder?
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John Alexander


Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 1:09 pm     Reply with quote

Much of it (maybe all) could make sense as a Bb6 tuning. For example, if the changes on V and RKL are all half steps, those are standard Maurice Anderson Bb6 knee levers. Same with LKR, at least the change on string 7.

If it's a Bb6 tuning, I would expect pedal D to lower string 8 rather than string 9. Also if it's a Bb6, I would expect that pedal B is lowering string 4 a whole step, a change that Maurice Anderson usually had on RKR.

Lowering string 5 (a half step) is a standard Bb6 change that Maurice usually had on LKL rather than RKR.

Can you give us for each pedal/KL whether the changes are half step or whole step, and maybe check pedal D to see if it isn't lowering string 8 instead of string 9?

Here's a thread on ancient Bb6 copedents - you'll find one of Bud Carter in the Tom Bradshaw information posted by Dave Zirbel. https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=227795&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Sonny Jenkins


From:
New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 3:36 pm     Reply with quote

Bud Carter played a modified version of Bb6 because of a problem rotating left foot. That may very well be one of his old guitars,,,last one I saw that he had was black.
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John Alexander


Post Posted 11 Feb 2018 4:29 pm     Reply with quote

Sonny Jenkins wrote:
Bud Carter played a modified version of Bb6 because of a problem rotating left foot. That may very well be one of his old guitars,,,last one I saw that he had was black.


That's interesting - if that problem would prevent him from rocking the left foot between normal A & B "split" pedals (as in E9 and in all of Maurice's later Bb6 tunings), it might explain that, in the context of a Bb6 tuning, the A pedal raising strings 2 (a half step) and 5 (a whole step) would function on those strings like normal A & B pedals being played together - kind of like a Bud Isaacs pre-"split" AB pedal. That's what I've been assuming the A pedal is for in this mystery copedent, but I couldn't think of any reason a person wouldn't use split A/B pedals as per the E9 tuning and Maurice's Bb6 - maybe you've answered it.

Edited to add: Looking back at the old Bud Carter copedent in the Tom Bradshaw information I mentioned in my first post above, it appears that he had the same changes on the A, B, C and D pedals, except that he had an extra high string in that copedent, so that all the pedal changes affect the next string lower, as compared with the mystery copedent here. In other words, pedal A here raises strings 2 and 5, whereas in the old copedent they change 3 and 6.
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