Blocking

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Not sure if this is the right place for this - I'm going with the "techniques" portion of the description.

With my bad hands, blocking is kicking my butt. I've been trying to work the Right Hand Alpha, and am making painfully slow progress. I have a couple questions that I would be grateful to hear some advice about form you "old hands":

1) I find that the palm block is the most difficult thing for me. I have intermittently had some success with a combination of the Buddy Emmons tucked under third finger block, mixed in with the palm block - is this OK, or should I stick to practicing one method at a time until it is mastered?

2) I'm finding that, when palm blocking, the bouncing wrist sort of facilitates the next pick stroke more than the finger actually reaching to pick the string - Is this right or wrong?

3)I'm finding that patterns (bits and pieces of scales that are easier to get running smoothly than whole scales), more so than scales are coming out. This is way different than my experience with the 6-string where whole scales are actually easier than arpeggios. - is this going to present a problem later, or is it OK for now?

As always, any learn-ed input is much appreciated.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Two years in, Iâ€™m still doing my blocking drills every day. I try to manage a little finger and palm blocking practice time. This thread got me started:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=200502&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Go straight to Dave Magramâ€™s comments. Copy and paste them into a word document, print it out, and keep it on your music stand.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Seems like you're on the right track on all counts. You put it in a list, so I'll do the same.

1) Yes, it's most definitely OK to do hybrid combinations if they feel more comfortable. Most experienced steelers use a variety of blocking moves involving both hands, depending on the situation. And it happens subconsciously; the brain knows it wants a string to stop ringing and the hands make a move to 'make it so.'

But as a beginner, I think you do have to consciously drill on all of the different methods, even ones you will ultimately abandon (pick blocking, palm blocking, tucked fingers, base of picking thumb, left hand finger extended above the bar, left thumb at the base of the bar). You drill because they are ALL awkward at first and not yet locked into muscle memory. At first, it's hard to tell which ones are actually the natural ones you'll end up going with. Just understand that you'll probably end up using many of them as you get better in a real-time mix-and-match fashion.

It sounds like you're doing this experimentation to see what feels best with the fingers tucked or not. That's the main one in the list that's an 'either/or' because, as opposed to all the other blocking moves that you can bring in at various moments, you'll probably end up full time in one camp or the other on that one (tucked under or fingers splayed out). But even if you tuck, and even if you use them to block higher strings, you'll still maybe block lower strings with the back of the hand, or the fleshy part of the thumb like Paul Franklin. Some people just don't take to one of those methods, and that's OK. But you do have to work for a while to give each method some time to hopefully become comfortable. Do your due diligence rather than rushing to judgement. After a while, you hands will decide what they actually like and you can go with that, comfortable in the knowledge that you've investigated all blind alleys.

Everybody ends up doing what they can do best -- the thing that feels the least awkward. If you can make the string stop ringing without hampering your picking or musicality, it's 'correct.' It sounds like you're already making the decisions if you find yourself wanting to tuck your fingers and use them to block while otherwise trying to purely palm block. Welcome to the club. Don't feel bad about modifying the (excellent) Newman method to suit what works for you. This is how the progression is supposed to work.

2) For palm blocking, I think bouncing the hand on the strings is not only fine, it's hard not to do that. So, yes, the picking of the next note can happen as part of the upward move of the bounce.

3) Luckily, scale fragments and arpeggios are much more musically useful in a song than full scales. So, carry on.

John Spaulding · From: Wisconsin, USA

Paul Franklin on Blocking: https://paulfranklinmethod.com/tackling-blocking/

Paul talking with Lloyd Green about how he blocks at 15:30: https://paulfranklinmethod.com/a-conversation-with-lloyd-green-pt-3/

Paul on scales versus triadic/intervallic: https://paulfranklinmethod.com/tipping-the-scales/

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Thanks to all for the excellent advice. I think what was getting me a little uncertain, is that Jeff Newman seemed to be saying that their is one way to do it. This was familiar to me, as when I was a kid, I took lessons for classical guitar, and was taught the "Segovia" method, and he was rigid in his admonishions about every little aspect of posture and technique - and most of them seemed to be right.

I'm just trying to avoid bad habits that I'll have to break later on. I notice that when I shift to practicing actual songs, or trying to cop other guys licks, chords or whatever, or I move into the creative side of exploration part of practice, that my hand wants to flatten out and I constantly have to readjust it back to the arched up position. This, I suppose, is because I'm concentrating on things other than picking and blocking.

Thanks again for all the comments fellas. Having already been a pretty well accomplished 6-string player, I think I'm feeling a little frustration at not being able to instantly play whats in my head as well, like I had been for 30 or so years haha. Practice, practice practice I suppose, is the key.

Ken Boi · From: Arizona, USA

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Yeah Ken, I find that the closer string to the crease in my palm is hard to get blocked. I think there is something to do with length of fingers, in regard to how vertical the hand position is. Jeff and Buddy seem to have very long fingers, which I do not. I'm not so concerned with having the exact same position as those guys, as effectively blocking. Some of the other fellas have stated that as well. In the end, I'm not concerned with the look of my hand, as long as no terrible habits (like the hand flattening out) don't become part of my technique. I think that Tucker relieved some of m,y concerns above - back to the grind stone.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I always found it helpful to sometimes think of the technique more as "unblocking" than "blocking". By that I mean, you're actually covering or muting the strings at rest (when you're not playing), and then "unblocking" them when you play. Also, keep in mind that, except for palm and finger blocking of some of the faster stuff, exaggerated hand movements aren't usually necessary. (I've seen some players move their hand several inches up and down - even when playing slower stuff. Economy of motion is essential to comfortable and smooth playing.)

With proper hand position and use of the picks (and a little practice), you'll find your blocking becomes more and more natural, and not something you have to constantly think about.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LIe28-4fFzg
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gY53zX4D9ik

Turn the sound down and just watch the right hands. Jeff Newman maintains a pretty focused fundamental position, but Buddy is all over the map. Two of the greatest players of all time, answering pretty much every question in your post with the way they actually play. Plus the link to Paul Franklinâ€™s material on the subject of fingertip blocking, where â€œflattening outâ€ the hand is how you do it.

The term â€œunblockingâ€ is very helpful, Donny. Thanks for that one Cool

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Thanks Donny. I've heard Mickey talk about that too (unblocking).

Yeah Fred, I've watched them both. Buddy Charleton had great technique too. They show a lot of good angles of him on the old Ernest Tubb shows.

The more I drill this, the better it gets - but it's damned slow haha! I had 10 hrs practice last week, and at least 5 of it was right hand drills. I'll feel better when I can do the intro lick to Four Wheel drive at speed haha!

Franklin · Posted 28 Oct 2018 3:10 pm

Bobby,

Economy of motion is required for both fast and slow playing and everyone should take the time to learn or correct their technique habits ASAP. The good news is there are several unique technique options that modern players are pursuing today...
Its important you get correct information towards how all techniques are accomplished so you can start applying the correct technique for your physicality...You will need a great technique for a diverse musical journey.

Buddy Emmon's said this to me as an early teenager and I reference his wisdom often. His statement was so profound towards learning the instrument, he said "Kid, you'll need a bigger rake".

This is a fact about technique....The fast players, like Buddy, Weldon, Hal, Doug, could all play with beautiful tone on ballads...But not all of the tonal ballad players had the technical prowess for clean speed. Why not? when advice is sound? I needed a bigger rake. There are many who can teach you correctly but make sure they play at the highest levels when taking technical advice.

The problem with sending you back to the early 60's technique concepts is that over 30 years of technical innovation has occurred. Those strict "One Size Fits All" teachings no longer applies to what's being achieved today...

Nobody has stated here that the accurate way to accomplish Mine and Buddy Emmons technique was not in those early teachings...Buddy was not a complete palm blocker because he also used along with his palm, the picks, and his ring fingertip to block. .... And I am not a complete pick blocker because I use the backside of my thumb instead of the palm and I do use picks plus my ring and pinky fingertips tucked under to block....Both of our techniques are closer to each others than Jeff's and Winnie's knuckles up strict palm blocking technique was to our techniques.

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Paul, I posted something a couple moths ago about single note playing, and you told me about your method with the "webbed" third and middle finger. Since then, I have worked a little bit toward that, but find it very awkward for me (unless, we are talking about the 3rd tucked under to block, which I'm starting to get). My excuses for not having a real teacher yet are, well, excuses, but they are sound ones. As soon as I can afford it, I will have one. Thank you so much for your input. It is always very much appreciated. Like I stated above: I'm trying not to develop a bunch of bad habits until I can afford real instruction. This forum is a unique, and invaluable resource. It provides such an advantage to have such access to helpful thoughts from across the spectrum of players.

David Ellison · From: California, USA

I learned from the Winnie Winston book originally, but I don't remember what the book said to do. I think that as time goes on, your playing technique evolves without you even thinking about it.

I play with my pinky straight out, and block with the edge of my hand and finger. With me, it's kind of a rolling motion with my hand: picking the note and rolling my hand back to block it all in one motion. The edge of my hand is barely off the strings, so it's definitely about "economy of motion". I also find that the faster you pick, the more the blocking kind of takes care of itself.

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

I seem to roll a bit too David. Speaking of "economy of motion", I've noticed a striking difference between Buddy Cage, and John Hughy. Where Cage bounces quite a bit, you can barely see Hughey's hand move. I've also heard Mickey Adams talk about the hand being barely off of the strings. I find at this point, that when I'm not paying attention, my hand wants to flatten out, and I have to keep correcting it.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Thanks Tucker. I'm still trying to train it to do something right haha! I had the Joe Wright Technique Bundle until I lost it when my hard drive zilched out.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Yeah, I'm thinking that will happen too Fred. That is how the Emmons 3rd finger tucked under thing started with me - kind of naturally.

I've got some good exercises out of Mickey's book as well.

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

Bobby Nelson · From: North Carolina, USA

Thanks Ian. It is coming along - slowly. I am trying to make this a default position for my hand, but am not ruling out other things developing into it. I see, in the end for me, a hybrid of things that work for me is probably what will be.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic