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Topic: Going slightly crazy in County Cork! |
Tony Boadle
From:
Skibbereen, County Cork, Ireland
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 1:43 am |
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Why did I decide, in a moment of madness, to mess with my Guyatone 8-string? Everything was just fine... top eight of E9th tuning, Emmons set-up pedals, happy picker.
So I thought I'd try the Day pedal configuration. Off came the connectors, out came the rods, re-jigged everything. Didn't care for it one bit, so simply put everything back where it was. And that's where my problems began. I just can't get the darn thing to tune right! I'm using a very accurate tuning app on my android phone. I can get the guitar tuned to perfection in the open tuning, but as soon as I try to tune the pedals, I end up just going round in circles. I get A right, then B and C, then I go back and now A is slightly out, so I fix that...then B is slightly out, then C, etc etc etc!
You'll see from the pics that the collars on 3 and 6 (the outside two) both touch the cross-bar. When I reassembled, 3 was ok but 6 was raising too much, I had to back it off and add a buffer spring. 4 and 5 are the main problem. Adjusting either stop-screw to get one right seems to put the other slightly out.
I'm thinking maybe maybe the tuning app is just too precise, as the guitar sounds almost ok (lol) when I play it. Having said that, I'd really appreciate advice on how to get it right...like a starter's guide on how to to tune a PSG... because it was before I messed with it. It seems my wife was right from day one. I'm an idiot.
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 5:01 am
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| Chaseing your tail that’s mental therapy don’t worry about it u will get it figured out its called paying your dues |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 5:02 am
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| Chaseing your tail that’s mental therapy don’t worry about it u will get it figured out its called paying your dues. Look like your doing. A good job to me take a break an sleep on it it will come to u in a dream what your doing wrong. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 5:36 am
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I don’t know if this helps, but you might try this. That guitar looks like it uses the same basic design as a Sho-Bud rack and barrel. One of the secrets to an RnB working well is to have some deadband in it. You have to have a small gap between the rack and the barrel. In your case, the collar. So you might try adjusting the setup so there is a small air gap between the collar and the rack. Don’t have it snug. It should be a bit loose.
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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J R Rose
From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 7:36 am
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Hello Tony, I am no expert but will share with you what little I know. It looks like it is a pull/release changer? But you may know that already. If it is a pull/release changer you will need to tune it with pedals down first at the key head keys. Tune to the pitch of string when pulled. Let off pedals and tune open note at the changer end. Hope this helps. J.R.
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose |
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Tony Boadle
From:
Skibbereen, County Cork, Ireland
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 2:57 pm
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Thanks for the replies!
Johnnie....I appreciate the 'answer in a dream' suggestion, but any spare dreams I may have are reserved for secret meetings with Miranda Lambert.
JR..... that's a really handy tip, but there's no adjustment facility at the changer end. Only a line of stop screws to limit finger travel on the raises.
Tom...maybe that's part-way towards the answer. I recall that all the collars had a little free space prior to my meddling. I assumed that was a bad thing, so I slid them up tight against the cross-bars when re-fitting.
I'm not long back from a gig, so I'll check that out tomorrow and get back to you.
Thanks again from Skibbereen, County Cork, Ireland. |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 5:46 pm
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| My grandmother was born in Cork. She pronounced it "CONTY CARK" Barrels are to close to the rack. |
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J R Rose
From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 7:55 pm
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Tony, I think you will find you need some slack in your rods. I still think it is a pull/release changer and you may have to go all the way back to a zero setting. A picture of the changer from the end would perhaps help. J.R.
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose |
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J R Rose
From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 8:12 pm
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Tony, After rereading your post are you sure that the set screws are for forward pull stops. A pull/release changer is made so the changer pulls up against the body and that is why you tune the strings with the pedals down at the key end. The picture does not show what the screws are doing on the changer end. They should be used as the open E 9th tuning. Again, start with pedals down to tune to raised tuning and then tune open strings with the screws on the changer. I may be totally wrong with my thinking. But also the rack pulls may be doing what I am talking about. Tune the keys with the pedals down and tune open with set screws. I have never seen or worked on a guitar such as this. Good Luck, J.R.
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 9:22 pm
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Looking at the photo's, my take on is that you can tune the fingers before putting any rods on it.
Let the fingers rest on the stop-plate (arrowed blue) and tune them up to the open pitch, using the headstock tuners.
Push a finger manually , and adjust it to its raised pitch using the tuning screws (arrowed red).
Now you can set the collars on the rods. Don't try and set the collars in a neat line, set them so that the fingers have fully raised to their pre-set stop position when the pedal is fully depressed.
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Tony Boadle
From:
Skibbereen, County Cork, Ireland
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Posted 28 Apr 2018 11:57 pm
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What a boost it is to know that there's always help, support and advice from the guys on the SGF! Thanks for the further input, I'll have some PSG time later, I'm refreshed and now looking forward to round two.
Further pics attached as requested, keep the comments coming!
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2018 7:04 am
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| More fun than a barrel of monkeys be careful this can become a rewarding hobby but the forum members has all the right answers. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 29 Apr 2018 7:18 am Going slightly crazy in County Cork
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I agree with Richard Burton. The 3rd, 4th and 5th fingers are not tight against the stop bar. The collars at the pedal bars need to be loosened on the rods so all the fingers are tight against the stop bar. Then follow Richards suggestions about the pedal tuning. Make sure their is a little free travel between the pedal pull bar and the stop collar. Good Luck and Happy Steelin.
It may be that Buddy Emmons and Jimmy Day are setting somewhere together laughing right now. We Tricked Another One Into Trying Both Setups, HA HA. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 29 Apr 2018 8:58 am
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LOL. Yes and saying “Have a nice Dayâ€
_________________
To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Tony Boadle
From:
Skibbereen, County Cork, Ireland
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Posted 29 Apr 2018 2:32 pm
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Almost there! Having followed all the above instructions, I've finally mastered the art of tuning my eight-string! Yes, loosen the collars, tune 'at rest' then tune each raise using the finger stop screws. Then re-tighten each collar allowing for a little free-play...result? It sounds more in-tune than it ever has before! There's still a slight problem with 4 and 5, 4 won't quite hit the raise note when 5 does. This could be a historic problem, as the pics show finger 4 was pulled forward when I first bought the guitar. But that's tomorrow's task.
Meantime, thanks once again to all contributors! |
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Tony Boadle
From:
Skibbereen, County Cork, Ireland
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Posted 30 Apr 2018 6:38 am
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Tuning finally sorted. Any further unpleasant sound is down to my picking from now on.
One quick question....is there a recommended pedal height ratio between A B and C? That is, If B is comfortable, where should A and C be in relation to the height of B? (Emmons btw) Or is it just whatever feels right? |
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Michael Maddex
From:
Northern New Mexico, USA
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Posted 30 Apr 2018 8:48 am
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Well done, Tony! Congrats! 
I'm no Expert and I haven't been playing pedals lately, but when I was I adjusted them to bottom out at the same height so that when I mashed two at once they came out even at the end of their travel. Now that everything is in tune, I think that it's really just a matter of what feels comfortable for you. Now the Pros can chime in.
Again, Good Job and Enjoy!
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"For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert." -- Arthur C. Clarke |
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Tony Boadle
From:
Skibbereen, County Cork, Ireland
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Posted 1 May 2018 8:41 am
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| Thanks, Michael. Suggestion (and compliment!) appreciated. |
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 1 May 2018 11:17 am
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What Michael said. That’s how I adjust them.
BTW, if you see Norman King out on Sherkin Island, please give him my regards.
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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Tony Boadle
From:
Skibbereen, County Cork, Ireland
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Posted 1 May 2018 11:42 am
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Will do Tom. We played on the island for a marquee wedding last weekend, but Norman wasn't around. Check out the view from the stage!
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Tom Wolverton
From:
Carpinteria, CA
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Posted 1 May 2018 2:26 pm
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lovely
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To write with a broken pencil is pointless. |
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