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Topic: Custom single neck C6 or X6 |
Jeffrey McFadden
From: Missouri, USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2018 8:00 pm
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I'm almost hesitant to post this...
For the past few years I've been playing a 7 string C6 (Am7) lap steel which I built. I've gotten the urge to take it to the next level with a pedal steel.
I'm seriously considering building one. I know I can't save money this way; I like to build things. Plus, looking at b0b's Copedents of the Stars page, about the only X6 I could get with any standard S10 I could afford would be Herb Remington's A6, 3 pedals & 2 knee levers. Buddy Emmon's C6 takes 5 pedals / 2 knee levers. Sneaky Pete's B6 takes 9 pedals / 2 knees. I don't think my brain will stretch that far.
I'm 70 and have never even sat in front of a pedal steel. I don't play "normal" pedal steel music, I play old rock'n'roll and blues, a tiny bit of country, with a small town obscure local band. It's taken me this long to halfway learn a C6 neck and I'm not into starting over with E9.
Anyway - Hi, y'all. There's a crazy guy in the room. _________________ Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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K Maul
From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 16 Jan 2018 6:01 am
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For what you want to do,you don’t have to use all those changes. You can be very creative with just two or three pedals and one knee. It won’t be that much to learn. Don’t let it put you off. Pete’s B6 can be useful for Keys of E and A with just three pedals,maybe his one knee that drops the first string. Lots of blues and old rock tunes are in those keys. Same goes for Emmons C6. Just learn a couple pedals to get the 4 chord and Dom 7. You dont have to digest it all and you can use what you already know on C6. Keep it simple, take it one bite(or pedal)at a time and have fun. _________________ Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Donny Hinson
From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Jan 2018 6:19 am
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Even a 3+1 C6th setup would open up a whole new world for you. I'd go the build-it yourself direction only if your funds are restricted. |
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Bobby Snell
From: Austin, Texas
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Posted 16 Jan 2018 7:33 am
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Look at using standard C6 pedals 5-6-7 and the one knee that drops the high-C to B. That'll keep you busy for a while and allow you to use what you already know on your C6/Am7 tuning. |
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Bob Watson
From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.
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Posted 16 Jan 2018 1:06 pm
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Jeffrey, I noticed you are from Missouri. If you are anywhere near the St. Louis area, there is a music store in Imperial MO. around 1/2 hour south of St. Louis called Jefferson County Music, or JCM. One of the owners, Darrell Stiles, builds JCM pedal steels. When you figure out what tuning and pedals you want, he could build you a custom steel. Darrell is a great guy and I'm sure he would be helpful if you decided to build one on your own. Here is a link to their website. http://www.jeffcountymusic.com/ |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From: Missouri, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2018 6:31 am
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Bobby Snell wrote: |
Look at using standard C6 pedals 5-6-7 and the one knee that drops the high-C to B. That'll keep you busy for a while and allow you to use what you already know on your C6/Am7 tuning. |
I actually don't know what "Standard C6" is. Can you point me to a chart of it somewhere? _________________ Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From: Missouri, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2018 6:37 am
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K Maul wrote: |
... Pete’s B6 can be useful for Keys of E and A with just three pedals,maybe his one knee that drops the first string. Lots of blues and old rock tunes are in those keys. ... |
Now I'm confused. With my lap steel I think of all keys being equally accessible. Is there something about a pedal steel which prioritizes, or works better, with some keys than others?
This is a real question. _________________ Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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Bob Tuttle
From: Republic, MO 65738
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Posted 22 Jan 2018 9:59 am
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The only reason I can think of, where one key would work better than another, is if you are using some open strings. |
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 22 Jan 2018 10:09 am Re: Custom single neck C6 or X6
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Jeffrey McFadden wrote: |
I'm seriously considering building one. I know I can't save money this way; I like to build things. |
Jeffrey, I built one and saved a bunch of money. I spent well under $1000 building a decent-sounding 12-string and I don't believe you can buy much ready-made for that. _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From: Missouri, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2018 11:31 am Re: Custom single neck C6 or X6
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Ian Rae wrote: |
Jeffrey McFadden wrote: |
I'm seriously considering building one. I know I can't save money this way; I like to build things. |
Jeffrey, I built one and saved a bunch of money. I spent well under $1000 building a decent-sounding 12-string and I don't believe you can buy much ready-made for that. |
Thanks, Ian. I'm looking at Ray Moonraker's vids - did you use them, some other instructions, or fly by the seat of your pants?
I ordered some other instructions from eBay but they're not here yet. _________________ Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 22 Jan 2018 1:09 pm Re: Custom single neck C6 or X6
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Jeffrey McFadden wrote: |
I like to build things. Plus, looking at b0b's Copedents of the Stars page, about the only X6 I could get with any standard S10 I could afford would be Herb Remington's A6, 3 pedals & 2 knee levers. Buddy Emmon's C6 takes 5 pedals / 2 knee levers. Sneaky Pete's B6 takes 9 pedals / 2 knees. I don't think my brain will stretch that far.
I'm 70 and have never even sat in front of a pedal steel. I don't play "normal" pedal steel music, I play old rock'n'roll and blues, a tiny bit of country, with a small town obscure local band. It's taken me this long to halfway learn a C6 neck and I'm not into starting over with E9.
Anyway - Hi, y'all. There's a crazy guy in the room. |
Not as crazy as some of us. Check out my D6th while you're at it. The first 2 pedals give you "that country sound" without changing the 6th tuning at all. Here's the 8-string version:
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Click 'Copedents' in my signature below to see the 10-string D6th. It can be simplified, of course. _________________ -𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Rich Peterson
From: Moorhead, MN
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Posted 23 Jan 2018 7:18 pm b0b's 10 string D6
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Don't mean to hijack the thread. Wondering if there is any reason to not exchange P3 and P5 on the 10 string. |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2018 9:59 am
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I prefer to keep Buddy Emmons C6th pedal arrangement because it's brilliant. I was very pleased to discover that his standard P7+P8, when applied on D6th, produces the exotic Hawaiian B11th tuning. Sand is one of my favorite tunes. _________________ -𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From: Missouri, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2018 5:24 pm
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b0b wrote: |
I prefer to keep Buddy Emmons C6th pedal arrangement because it's brilliant. I was very pleased to discover that his standard P7+P8, when applied on D6th, produces the exotic Hawaiian B11th tuning. Sand is one of my favorite tunes. |
I read your D6 page, and have to admit that I don't know enough to understand it all. For starters, although I know what E9 "is", i.e. I know what an E9 chord is and I've read the strings / notes, I've never touched one so my understanding is entirely abstract.
When you refer to Buddy Emmons C6 I assume you mean as shown on your page here.
https://b0b.com/tunings/stars.html#C6be If that's correct, it appears that I need to build for 5 pedals + 4 knee levers, is that right?
It is clear to me that you have a much higher / wider knowledge of music than I do. I respect that greatly and really appreciate your input.
I've been thinking of actually going with a Bb6, because my band plays in C a lot and I hate to play on open strings. Thoughts? _________________ Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2018 8:08 pm
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Jeffrey McFadden wrote: |
When you refer to Buddy Emmons C6 I assume you mean as shown on your page here.
https://b0b.com/tunings/stars.html#C6be If that's correct, it appears that I need to build for 5 pedals + 4 knee levers, is that right? |
The minimum would be 4 pedals (P5, P6, P7, P and the knee lever that lowers C to B.
Quote: |
I've been thinking of actually going with a Bb6, because my band plays in C a lot and I hate to play on open strings. Thoughts? |
If you build the guitar as C6th, you can easily experiment with tuning the entire guitar higher or lower. My Carter D-10 had C6th had on the back neck. I put my D6th string gauges on it and retuned. No problem. _________________ -𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video
Last edited by b0b on 25 Jan 2018 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 12:49 am
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b0b, don't you mean C to B for the lever? Another tuning to consider if you want to avoid open C is B6, as it aligns with E9 fretwise. _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 9:34 am
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Ian Rae wrote: |
b0b, don't you mean C to B for the lever? Another tuning to consider if you want to avoid open C is B6, as it aligns with E9 fretwise. |
Yes. Corrected. _________________ -𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Jeffrey McFadden
From: Missouri, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 8:09 pm
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Following up on the Buddy Emmons C6...
I made a spreadsheet to help me understand what was going on here. Here's an image of it. Changes are highlighted.
My understanding is limited, and I don't have my PSG yet, but I should be able to learn some things by studying. Here's what I see so far:
* In the open position I see C, F, Am, C9 chords
* I can't figure out what the Ab is for in LKL
* I see a C7 in LKR
* I see an Em and Cmaj7 at P4
* P5 offers a D chord
* P6 gives me a Dm chord. I can't see what the Eb is for.
* P7 offers a solid G chord.
* I am, so far, flat befuddled regarding P8, RKL, and RKR.
I would make a sizeable bet that I am missing a fair amount here and welcome suggestions / advice. Thanks.
This spreadsheet is on my Google Drive and anyone who wants to is welome to comment on it. Here's the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1el_uhATy0Wu3YutO3U6CzyXe2i01yBt8ZffXICyCk9c/edit?usp=sharing _________________ Well up into mediocrity
I don't play what I'm supposed to.
Home made guitars |
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b0b
From: Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2018 9:41 pm just scratching the surface
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P5 is a D9 chord
P6 is an F9 chord
P5+P6 is a diminished chord
P7 is CMaj7, Em7 or G6
P8 is A7#9 (the #9 note is changed with RKL or RKR)
RKL is a CMaj7 chord
RKR+P5 is a A6th chord _________________ -𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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