How to use Nashville Notation for this minor song

Wolfgang Mrazek · From: Sweden

First of all ... I wish y'all A Happy New Year!

I started working with Nashville Notation about a year ago and still learning. So far, all songs have been in Major key but this one now is in Minor key...

It's "Boat on the river" by Styx. It has rather nice chord changes.

[url] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Qs8-BkiLw [/url]

So I'm asking, does this make sense what I have written using Nashville Notation? Or would you rather go for the chords on songs like this? See below. The song is in Gm that has the relative key Bb. So I used Bb.

Here is the song with chords:

Here is the song with my Nashville Notation:

Regards,
Wolfgang
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Bill C. Buntin · Posted 31 Dec 2017 3:54 pm

In this case (Gm) is now the one chord. For which you apply the rules for that mode.

So it would be Gm = 1-, Cm = 4-, A = 2, F = 7b etc etc.

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

Certain tunes are better written out in letters...this may be one of them.
It doesn't really go into a major section where the tonal relationship between the 1 and the 6m is apparent.
In this instance the minor sounds as the tonic, so my advice would be to just keep this one charted in letters.

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

ajm · From: Los Angeles

So maybe an unintended lesson from this topic is: If you get called to do a session, make sure you have a pen/pencil/Sharpie with you.

If you are given a chart written in one format, and you prefer it in the other format, you can quickly mark it up.

However, if they give you the chart written in "letter" format, and they decide to change keys, it could get messy. In that case, you'd be better off with the "number" format. That way you wouldn't need to mark it up.

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Wolfgang Mrazek · From: Sweden

Tried it out today at rehearsal with the band. I preferred the "letters" although I am more used to "numbers". But now the singer wanted to change the key to Em...
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Charlie McDonald · From: out of the blue

That's the beauty of numbers.
I think it translates better if the song is noted in 1m, rather than as a relative minor

Bryan Daste · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I would write this in numbers as you did, with the Gm as the 6-. But since the chords aren't necessarily super intuitive, I might pencil in a couple of clues along the way - for instance, the fourth chord is the 7 major, which is not very common, so I might just pencil a little "A" right over that. There are a few more candidates. Then if the key does get changed, you only have to change your little clues rather than rewrite everything.
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Michael Maddex · From: Northern New Mexico, USA

If I were to use the numbers, I would notate it in Gm, that is 'Gm = 1m' and so on as noted above. To notate a song in a Minor Key with numbers from a Major Scale (Gm = 6m) just doesn't make sense to me.
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Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Personally, I have a hard time thinking of a song as "in Bb" when there is not a single Bb chord in it. It strikes me as counter-intuitive. The underlying assumption seems to be that there is no such thing as a minor key, which my ears tell me isn't so.

For my own purposes, I would assign numbers in this song relative to Gm being 1m, the tonic.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I've done it all three of the ways mentioned depending on which system 'fits' the song best: assuming the key is the relative major and then writing the tone center as 6m, writing it as a 1m, and just skipping numbers altogether. If the song is unusual, I'll write chords and numbers over them.

Check out this prior thread on this topic:

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=212215

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I certainly see the value of the number system and it works best with simple chord structures. I still prefer the actual chord-symbols, though, even if it's a basic tune.

A easy a tune as, say, 'Back Home in Indiana' can be challenging if it's written in 'numbers' - there's that split-second where you're momentarily counting up or down the scale in your head! There's no room for doubt with the proper chord-symbol.
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Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Yes it makes sense. I agree with others who have suggested Gm as the key and the tonic chord.

I worked with a singer who changed keys depending on the weather. Letter charts would have been useless for somebody who was subbing. Made doing background vocals interesting too. Confused

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Right. Some songs don't lay as easily in a number system. The right tool for the job, and all that... I use numbers up until it doesn't make sense. I play with too many people who regularly change the key of a song, real-time, 5 seconds before downbeat, so... numbers are my first choice if the structure of the song will allow writing it that way. If not, no big deal. Chords work too.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Exactly, Brint - that's where the method falls down. It works in theory but.....

Whoa!

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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

The convenience of using numbers for the sake of the chart is really only a perk of the number system. The real benefit is hearing the changes. There's no need to count up or down scale tones if your ears are trained to hear the numbers.

You could number the Styx song as a 1m, etc, but it's not going to be "ear-intuitive" throughout the body of the tune.

Franklin · Posted 3 Jan 2018 1:43 pm

Wolfgang,
In numbers that song is an easier read as 6m.....You can omit the Gm at the top and just say Bb because the 6m in the chart to a musician seeing the chart for the first time is a Gm... Having two key signatures at the top is an indicater of a modulation.....
Paul Franklin

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

The End.

Franklin · Posted 5 Jan 2018 6:15 am

All The Things You Are
Key Ab
6m 2m 5 1

4 7dom 3 3

Key Eb
6m 2m 5 1

4 7dom 3 3

Key G
2m 5 1 1

7m 3 6 6

Key Ab
6m 2m 5 1

4 7b 1 3m/3bm

2m 5 1 3

Wolfgang,

I don't remember seeing anyone raise modulating Key Centers when charting with the number system....Thanks to Brint for raising a good point..Number charts written in single keys when songs are composed in multiple key signatures can be a nightmare to read....

I believe I serve myself best by staying with one system for simplicity of learning....I was never good at switching back and forth between numbers and letters. I see music as intervals (numbers) and since letters require transposing when singers change keys I chose numbers as the easier way for me.

A lot of shortcuts with the number system have evolved over decades....Often on more complicated songs the chordal centers change to keep it simple and easy to read. As I study music writing complicated songs in numbers using modulations helps me see where all the common 2/5/1's are found.
Numbers are the same as letters in this respect...To know the system I had to memorize where all the flats and sharps are located.

Paul

Wolfgang Mrazek · From: Sweden

Thanks for all your replies, it is a great help for me! As I said, the Nashville number system is new to me and I'm still learning by doing. And reading the posts here, and a good book: "The Nashville Number System" by Chas Williams.

It is such a powerful system. The numbers tell what function the chord have in the song. Arrangements, form, stops, etc. can be written in only one sheet of paper that gives a good overview.

I still haven't convinced the others in my band though, I'm trying...
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Doug Hall · From: Alabama, USA

Which is Better requires answering, For Whom? Best to ask them.
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Fred Treece · From: California, USA