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Post new topic Adjusting 2nd string D#->D->C#
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Author Topic:  Adjusting 2nd string D#->D->C#
Al Evans


From:
Austin, Texas, USA
Post  Posted 15 Mar 2018 12:16 pm    
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I have this two-phase lower on my guitar, but I don't have any actual "half-stop" mechanism. This doesn't seem to be a problem, except that at the moment, the second phase, lowering both string 2 and string 9 to C#, is ending up a little sharp. This is because I set it at the changer so the D was accurate on the 2nd string.

In searching this site, I found a recommendation to set up the second string for the full lower to C#, then rotate the bell crank for the 9th string so that it starts moving when the 2nd string gets to D. Then both of them end up at C#.

My question is: Wouldn't it accomplish the same thing if I loosened the pull rod at the bell crank and slid it toward the changer enough to leave the appropriate amount of slack? If not, what's the difference?

Thanks!

--Al Evans
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Dave Meis


From:
Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA
Post  Posted 15 Mar 2018 6:36 pm    
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No difference. That's what you're doing when you adjust the nylon nut (if I understand the question). Smile.
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Tim Russell


From:
Pennsylvania, USA
Post  Posted 16 Mar 2018 2:18 am    
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If I understand your question, you are ending up with the 2nd string a bit sharp? If that is so, you need a bit more travel, by moving the "stop" on that knee, so all will move far enough to get to the lowest note.

Or maybe I don't understand, but I think that is what you are trying to accomplish. Smile
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Al Evans


From:
Austin, Texas, USA
Post  Posted 16 Mar 2018 6:03 am    
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Tim Russell wrote:
...

Or maybe I don't understand, but I think that is what you are trying to accomplish. Smile


I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been. Smile The objective is to get the 9th string lower to begin exactly when the 2nd string hits D.

Since I have no physical half-stop mechanism, I rely on the sudden stiffening of the lever to know where D is on the 2nd string.

--Al Evans
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Donny Hinson

 

From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
Post  Posted 16 Mar 2018 6:19 am    
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Since my setup and playing style dictates that I sometimes have to hit the "D" note accurately very quickly, I have the "D" and "C#" changes on different levers. It's not something I'd recommend for others, but it works for me.
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Jeffrey McFadden


From:
Missouri, USA
Post  Posted 16 Mar 2018 6:22 am    
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Al Evans wrote:
Tim Russell wrote:
...

Or maybe I don't understand, but I think that is what you are trying to accomplish. Smile


I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been. Smile The objective is to get the 9th string lower to begin exactly when the 2nd string hits D.

Since I have no physical half-stop mechanism, I rely on the sudden stiffening of the lever to know where D is on the 2nd string.

--Al Evans


I'm no PSG expert but I'm good with machinery, and I can't see how your original suggestion could fail. If 'twere mine I'd try it and see, I'm pretty sure it will work.
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Earnest Bovine


From:
Los Angeles CA USA
Post  Posted 16 Mar 2018 6:38 am     Re: Adjusting 2nd string D#->D->C#
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Al Evans wrote:
t that at the moment, the second phase, lowering both string 2 and string 9 to C#, is ending up a little sharp. This is because I set it at the changer so the D was accurate on the 2nd string.


My question is: Wouldn't it accomplish the same thing if I loosened the pull rod at the bell crank and slid it toward the changer enough to leave the appropriate amount of slack?



No. By setting the rod pullers at different angles, you can change how much they pull relative to each other, and get all the notes in tune.

The shaft rotation in your "second phase" moves string 9 a half step, but moves string 2 a little less than a half step. So you need to cause that shaft rotation to pull further (more changer movement) on string 2, or less on string 9. You can get less pull on string 9 by loosening the puller for string 9, rotating it a bit, then re-tightening. It may require some patience to get it right.
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Al Evans


From:
Austin, Texas, USA
Post  Posted 16 Mar 2018 8:09 am     Re: Adjusting 2nd string D#->D->C#
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Earnest Bovine wrote:



No. By setting the rod pullers at different angles, you can change how much they pull relative to each other, and get all the notes in tune.

The shaft rotation in your "second phase" moves string 9 a half step, but moves string 2 a little less than a half step. So you need to cause that shaft rotation to pull further (more changer movement) on string 2, or less on string 9. You can get less pull on string 9 by loosening the puller for string 9, rotating it a bit, then re-tightening. It may require some patience to get it right.


Thank you! I actually figured that out after my second post. I'm way slow at visual thinking.

The problem with my idea is that, presuming both pull rods are set to reach C#, you have to keep both lengths the same. So you've got to rotate the 9th string bell crank on the shaft to get that pull to start when the 2nd string hits D.

Fortunately, the older I get, the more inclined I am to wait until I understand things before I tear into them. Smile

--Al Evans
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Dave Meis


From:
Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA
Post  Posted 16 Mar 2018 9:41 am    
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I think I get the question now. The 'end point' of the pull is 'fixed'..it's when the string get to C#. Can't do anything about that. To adjust the 'feel stop', you have to adjust the 'start point' of the pull on string 9, and you do that by raising or lowering the pull rod on the bell crank (closer to the body would start the pull sooner, and further from the body would start the pull later). You could also adjust that by which hole in the changer you were using..closer to the strings is a faster pull, so a later start and lower down is a slower pull, so an earlier start..opposite the bell cranks. Think 'drive' and 'driven'.
Hope this helps..
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richard burton


From:
Britain
Post  Posted 16 Mar 2018 11:30 am    
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The most accurate way to do it (if you have a spare raise hole in the 9th finger) is to use a third rod, going from the same bellcrank that lowers the 9th string, but this time going to a raise hole in the 9th finger.

Set the 9th string to start dropping at the exact moment that the 2nd string has dropped a semitone, using the existing rods/nylons.

Carry on moving the knee lever until the 2nd string has dropped a full tone, and see how far the ninth has dropped. It will probably have dropped too much, and be flat of the note that you want.

This is where the new rod comes in to play, just adjust its nylon tuner until the ninth string has dropped a semitone.
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Larry Bressington


From:
Nebraska
Post  Posted 20 Mar 2018 10:27 am    
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This isen't set in stone but...Put the pull rod for the 2nd string and the pull rod for 9th string in the same hole count in the bell crank as each other, such as;

Say 2nd string is the 3rd hole from the body up and all functions well, put the 9th string drop in the 3rd hole of it's bell crank also, this will get you very close with standard gauge strings, however it is not set in stone.

Once you have string 2 in full function down to C# then start working the 9th string, but don't tweak the 2nd or you will chase your tail, you may have to move pull rod for the 9th up or down one hole.

You also have options at which hole to use at the changer end, i always use the quickest pull option which is the lower hole i think for raises and upper hole for lower, (without looking i can't swear on it) but you get the idea.
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