Power of simplicity

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

I don't know if this will help anyone or not, but those new to steel guitar might find some interest when trying to decide on the dizzying array of options available. Not only what instrument (dobro, lap steel, pedal steel, weissenborn) but strings (6, 8, 10, 12), genres (country, blues, hawaiian, swing, jazz, rock, western swing) let alone all the equipment, bars, picks to choose from.

Over the years, I've played many different types of steel guitars, chased dozens of tunings, had a wide variety of teaching materials, studied a wide variety of music genres. And while it was all fun, I often felt that my interest was so broad that it impacted my progress. These days, I'm much more into simplicity, and the power of one.

Here is where I am currently.

For me, it all starts with the 6 string Dobro and G tuning.

Why: well, I have always been basically an acoustic player, and 6 string dobro was the first lap steel I played. nothing easier to grab your dobro, head out the door, and play in any number of jams or settings.

Tuning: G tuning. Incredibly versatile, and it is the basis for everything else I do. Tons of teaching materials, great for bluegrass, country, backing up a singer, and even jazz.

Equipment: I have a fishman pickup installed in all my dobros. Aura box, into a acoustic preamp into a Boss Singer Live 30 watt amp. Propik finger picks, JD Bluechip thumb pick. Lap Dawg bar.

8 String Dobro
Tuning: G6. Why? because it is an extension of my basic tuning, G tuning. It gives me some more tricks I can use, but at its core, it is the same tuning I'm used to. Great for playing western swing, swing, great improvisational instrument in a jam setting, sounds great backing up a singer, and very fun to play. Equipment: same as 6 string Dobro.

8 string lapsteel.
Tuning: C6. Why: well the high C6 tuning is the same intervals as the G6 dobro. Whatever I learn on one, I can apply directly to the other. Still has the 6 string G tuning intervals, so my brains doesn't have to learn new grips, scales, or patterns. Everything I learn on the 6 string Dobro, I can apply to the 8 string dobro, I can apply to the 8 string lapsteel. Tons of teaching materials, good for country, blues, rock, hawaiian, swing, western swing.

Equipment: same fingerpicks, I use a bullet bar as well as the lap dawg. plug directly into an AER acoustic amp, which sounds great for lap steel.

And that is it.

While there are incredible things that can be done in different tunings, more strings, etc, I just don't do those things. There is more than enough for me to practice, listen to and play within the confines of those 6 or 8 strings and G, G6, and C6 tuning. I'm never going to play jazz on lap steel, (although my hat goes off to those that try and succeed (like Mike Neer). Everything I want to accomplish, I do with those tools.

One last suggestion: find a good teacher, living or dead, and study them exclusively and deeply for a while. Too many teachers teach diametrically opposed teaching skills which can cause confusion. For me, and right now: I'm doing a deep dive into mike Auldridge (because, naturally, he touches everything I just mentioned: 6 string dobro, 8 string dobro, C6 tuning) and the music I'm interested in playing.

Good luck with the journey.
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Mike Neer · From: NJ

I really feel like it was in my best interest to learn as much about playing steel guitar as possible from the perspective of the real steel players. How they play what they play.

But before that, I had many years of music in me. I feel like I had an advantage coming at steel guitar with a lot of musical knowledge.

In the end, it has all helped me just get closer to playing music the way I want to play it--the way I hear it. I'm no jazz player, I can barely play it. But I am comfortable enough on the instrument to chase after my own ideas. The minute that happened was when it became fun for me.
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Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

As Steve jobs said

â€œSimplicity is the ultimate sophisticationâ€

12 strings - 1 tuning - 1 instrument - 1-string spacing- 1 focus - 1 journey .

And it has to be said as Iâ€™m learning the jazz language little by little by immersing myself in it bit by bit each day.

Until you study jazz you really donâ€™t know what magic is happening as they blow through some lines a lot of the time we listen but donâ€™t know/hear.

Miles used to say he used to listen to â€œHear what cats were doing or not doingâ€

Your point about multiple tunings being simple. Maybe for some.
Multiple guitars maybe for some. Multiple strings and different spacing on different instruments maybe for some. Multiple bars and weights maybe for some

1 - is enough for me. But BOTH journeys can be simple depending on how you look at it.

I say this to encourage not discourage whatever path makes sense to you follow it as both are simple depending on how you factor in your journey.
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Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

I'm wondering if this is kind of like the Traditional Double neck vs the Uni 12 string Pedal Steel players.

Depending on how you look at it you could stand on either side.

I know from my perspective one that can do it All makes sense and is also easier to carry. Laughing

But to others Two necks makes sense.

Not sure I'd personally like to learn all the scales, arpeggios, chords x2.

1- neck seems enough for me. LOL.
Laughing

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"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist"

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

Certainly going your own route and forging new territory has its appeal. I went down the jazz 12 string route. In fact I owned the very first 12 string super slide, and even went crazy and bought the very first 2 neck 12 string superslide.

Of course, my journey is my own. But ultimately, I found it unsatisfying. I've personally never heard jazz executed well on a steel guitar, although there have been some heroic efforts, and interesting experiments. Mike Neer has probably come the closest . I ultimately decided that Jazz for me was all about the brass, reeds, piano, drums and bass. So I actually quit playing steel guitar completely, picked up a trumpet and for 5 years played nothing but brass instruments. Eventually playing flugelhorn in a small jazz group with gigs in Manhattan. I loved it, and there is nothing quite like playing a trumpet, to me the most personal instrument since it is the only instrument where the human body creates the initial vibration. There is no hiding when you play brass, and there is no instrument that is as close to singing.

When I went back to steel, I went a more traditional route. There is a lot to be said for tradition and for focusing on the things that steel guitar has traditionally been known for: for one, it is a much less lonely route. If you decide to play bluegrass, swing, western swing, hawaiian, country, or any type of acoustic music ...well there are plenty of people to show you the way, whether it's through lessons, or having a vast literature and many recordings of past masters to show you the way.

I find it great fun to practice a fast lick that I learned by listening to Mike Auldridge, or trying to imitate Rob Ickes. As I get older I find myself enjoying the traditional repertoire more and more. And from a gig standpoint, much easier to find others to play with when you can bring a traditional sound to the table.

Here's to those that take the road less traveled. But if we really understand the Frost poem, the real meaning is: it doesn't matter what road you take: the well traveled one is just as rewarding, if not more so.
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Nic Neufeld · From: Kansas City, Missouri

Personally I've struggled a bit at wanting to expand into too many areas, making it hard to really develop expertise in any one instrument. Normal electric guitar/bass are well into the "maintenance mode" for me, something I mostly do because its what everybody needs (bass more than guitar unsurprisingly). I still branch out a bit here and there, playing around with Jaco "Portrait of Tracy" harmonics, all the usual clichÃ©s I suppose, but generally I don't find myself coming home from work thinking "let me at that bass!". It's just something I do for church, gigs, etc.

Then for about 6 years I dove into Hindustani classical. That's the closest to a proper classical music education I've ever had, albeit the teaching methods are very different, as is the music. The same conundrum there applies. You can be tempted to say, well, sitar is fun, but what about surbahar, sarangi, dilruba, all these fun interesting instruments! I did branch out to surbahar, but it would've been probably more appropriate for me to focus exclusively on sitar (and my teacher only ever taught me sitar, although he was probably the greatest living surbahar player at the time). Likewise, while my teacher took me through the various raags quicker than he usually does, we had to balance the desire to learn new interesting raag structures with gaining proper mastery over the one we were currently working on. I'm a bit abashed recalling all this as its been many months since I've even touched my sitar, my callouses are basically gone and I probably will sound like rubbish.

Then more recently into Hawaiian steel. I started trying to focus on one tuning, C6...but my problem has been, I hear a song, and it infects me. I try playing that song in C6, and it just simply doesn't work (most do, but you have your outliers...several of which seem to be the Andy Iona classics). That's what got me to the point where B11 and A6 end up on my instrument from time to time. I had South Sea Island Magic on repeat in my head all day yesterday. I had tried awkwardly to make it work in C6 but it never fit, so when I came home last night, I grabbed my lap steel, lowered 2nd/4th strings and raised 6th, and spent the next hour on the couch coaxing that song out of that tuning...and it came!

So I can see the benefit of saying, ok, one tuning, let's focus on this and develop complete mastery of it. But for my interests which definitely include playing old Hawaiian standards (and somewhat mimicking the great players as best as I can) I'm going to have to make space for alternate tunings I think.

Ken Campbell · From: Ferndale, Montana

I think, for me anyway, it's important to have an open mind and to free yourself to experiment and just goof around. As time passes these things all are part of your musical experience and they make what ends up being your own style. Too much rigor is bad for me, good for others.

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

Good points Nic.

But as you say, it becomes hard to maintain. It is hard to have multiple instruments/necks for only one or two outliers. Especially when there is a wealth of great songs you can add to your repertoire by limiting yourself to one tuning.

For instance, when I was still playing guitar I had one song in my repertoire, st james infirmary, that was a big crowd pleaser. It was and is the most requested song I do. But when I switched to 100% dobro playing, I had to drop the tune, because I just couldn't work out an arrangement that matched what I did on guitar. I gave up a LOT of material that people loved when I made the switch.

Today, I'll still do the song if requested as long as someone has a guitar I can borrow (someone always does), so I'll play it on a borrowed guitar, but I don't own a guitar any more and I don't practice guitar anymore.

It forced me to go into different areas, and find new tunes that worked with my voice and dobro and I just left the rest behind.
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Mike Neer · From: NJ

I feel that music is such a personal journey that if your heart tells you to follow a path in spite of your mind saying it's not possible, then you have no choice but to continue down the path. In music, the heart wins!

I've also felt many times that it was an impossible thing to play jazz the way I hear it and the way I've been listening to it all my life. But as many times as my mind said no (and my fingers, too) I just kept playing and paying close attention to it. At some point I decided I wanted to play jazz tunes, but not play jazz style. Think about it: jazz instrumentals are the perfect vehicle for improvisation--if you know the language and can play through changes.

Stylistically I had to change things up to make it sound natural for the steel and for what I felt comfortable with. Trying to play jazz to get hired by someone or to fit in with other traditional instruments would be a waste of time in my opinion, but if you have a musical vision that involves jazz and steel guitar, giving up is not an option. It just takes harder work. And yes, simplification is one of the keys to its success.
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Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

I think you have the key there Mike: playing jazz tunes but not in a jazz style. Trying to get a steel guitar to sound like and replace a jazz guitarist in a traditional beboop group would never work and I think that is why I've been so unsatisfied with every attempt I've heard. You need to explore what makes the steel unique and explore that. Clearly your body of work is a testament to that.

Jerry Douglas's What If and Rob ickes playing Song for my Father I think illustrate your point perfectly.

Have a happy holidays all.
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Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Just a different journey.

2 different paths.

Also Rob Ickes and Jerry are excellent Dobro players but Jazz doesnâ€™t spring to mind when I hear them play. But excellent players none the less.

Ah well no worries. Hereâ€™s hoping we all achieve our musical goals & journey whatever they may be as those are the most satisfying things.
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
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"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist"

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

Stefan, have you heard Jerry's latest album What If, or Rob Ickes playing songs like song for my father?

Here's Rob doing it live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odWHkgIco2k

Here is Jerry with his latest band doing the title track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeyzPq8BNLY

and Cavebop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkNa4OaBCcM
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Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Rich Arnold is an excellent Jazz Dobro player as is Stacy Phillips.

They're approach outlines those changes/melody of the song better example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spIwIx-hD58
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Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

"Rob Ickes - Lives on Pentatonic Major and Minor scale
"

Ha. And Miles Davis lived in Dorian Mode on one of the greatest jazz albums ever made.

Of course it is jazz.
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Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

BTW:

The most famous and exciting solo in the history of jazz never left the blues scale: Paul Gonsalves.

The greatest jazz player of all time, Louis Armstrong never left the major minor and pentatonic scales in his life.

The greatest jazz record of all time was all done single modes.

The blues, pentatonic scales, major and minor scales are the basic ingredients of all jazz.

Jazz is a big house with many rooms.
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Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

There's a lot of rich fodder for conversation in this thread - so much so, it's hard to know where to begin.

First: jazz on steel guitar. My personal critical opinion is that from an honest critical perspective as a jazz fan, I've never heard any steel guitarist play credible bebop-style modern jazz on steel guitar at a level that equals mainstream players on horns, keys or standard guitar - and this includes Emmons, Chalker, Ickes and others.

In terms of swing-style jazz, Murphey, Chalker, Morrell and others have played swing at a very high level and brought sounds that are unique to the steel guitar to that music. What Ickes plays is a bit of a hybrid between bluegrass and jazz though I know he has listened carefully to Scofield, Carlton and other electric guitarists who play jazz.

To some degree, my personal option is that very fast, articulated lines go against the very nature of the instrument and there's a pull away from the steel's best characteristic - it's ability to slide chords and imitate the human voice.

Mike, I think you've found a way to play jazz, somewhat in the manner of Bill Frisell, that transcends genre and is able to negotiate the jazz language without being held prisoner by that language. It's just flat out excellent music regardless of the labels.

When I started out on steel, I was a bit of a failed jazz guitarist and in my head, I heard Kessel and Farlow and thought that was what I wanted to do. Years later, I heard Bobee Seymour's DVD with Maurice Anderson and had to admit - there it was and I didn't really dig it much. I do love the way Bobee played chord melody steel but it was rudimentary compared to a run-of-the-mill jazz pianist.

So I changed direction. Like you Bill, I simplified. I sold my 8-string guitars and found that I was better when restricted to only 6 strings and enjoyed the challenge of getting everything I could creatively out of just 6 strings. When I want to play jazz - or as close as I can come to playing jazz - I pick up my Tele. And over the last few years, as I've written books, I've found I'm playing less and less and composing and transcribing more and more. This does mean that it's been more difficult to preform my own arrangements at the level I'd like for public consumption but it's been a heartfelt ride I've thoroughly enjoyed.

Everyone's journey is different and equally valid. Best of luck to all on this forum who follow their muse. I love hearing your music!
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Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Bill

I Was referring to the chord changes.

And yes using major modes and minor modes is a huge part of the technical facility required but that ainâ€™t Jazz.

Chord tone emphasis, approach notes and passing chromatic are a part of the dialect of the jazz language. Itâ€™s what differentiates the approach as per say classical music.

So playing a major scale in the same key at blinding speed is great but unless you emphasise the notes that develop the melody or chord progression my friend you are simply running scales.

Coltrane Bill. Coltrane. Enough said.

I say up you say down.

I get the sense we are diametrically opposed because we are similar personalities but different views.
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Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

Well Stefan, there are decades of jazz before Coltrane. If Coltrane is your starting point, I would suggest that you are missing most of jazz history and most of the greatest jazz music. Coltrane was a singularity and even Coltrane's best record was Ballads, as simple as they come.
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Don Barnhardt · From: North Carolina, USA

I believe Bill started this thread speaking to new steel players. In my opinion Bill, I think your advice was rock solid. More advanced players might select tunings that that fit their particular style. I have myself but I keep coming back to G and C6 (I've moved to the Low C6). When I started playing back around 1950 my mentor played a 6 string Gibson and his philosophy was that when he got all the possible music out of it he would try something else. I feel the same way about G and C6. I don't play jazz but I con see where that is an exception. Anyway you beginners, Bills advice is excellent. Don't be afraid to experiment later on but G and C6 is a good place to start.

Bill McCloskey · From: Nanuet, NY

Thanks Don
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Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

We are in agreement about C6. Excellent starting ground.

But that is what E13 is.

C6 so why learn it twice?

I guess for beginners as there is so much more material to learn from in C6 its an easier start.

So yes Don and Bill C6 we are in agreement that its a solid foundation.

Also worth mentioning that C6 is able to play all genres of music you just need to put in the work.

Then when you are comfortable try E13 for Chord voicings and use your C6 moves to get acquainted.

then of course practice. Very Happy

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Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Stefan, if you were going to set up a 10-string guitar with your E13/b9 tuning, which two strings would you omit, and why.

The top pair? The bottom pair? The highest and lowest? Or something else.

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Oooh the sacrifice.

I'd say the 2 lowest but just means a few voicings you have to move around a bit.

You lose lower register voicings but they can be played in a higher octave on the remaining 10.

The only huge Major drawbacks are the mM7 Chord is gone so you'll have to settle for a Dyad like a 6 string player and play the b3 and M7 notes.

and your full 4 nite Dim7. You have a few inversions of 3 note Dim7 which are just as good.

A m9 Chord you'll lose the stronger voiced version so you'll have to settle for the M7 played from the b3 so example Cm9 - Eb, G, D so you lose that b7. But to be honest you can live with it as Jernigan prefers that voicing for some reason a lot.

Enjoy and feel free to ask any E13 questions I'm here to help. Great to have you on Board the E13 revolution.
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Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
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"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist"

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

So songs like Nightlife kiss that mM7 low Buddy Emmons voicings goodbye.

When the mM7 is used its like sexual relief on the ears at the end of a progression. Laughing

Took me almost a year to get the sound in my ears but its so great to throw it in.

You still have the mM9 though so not all is lost.
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"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist"

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