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Topic: What terms do you use to describe your backup parts? |
Pete Bailey
From: Seattle, WA
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 9:06 am
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Hi everyone, I'm just getting started playing out with my pedal steel, although I've done so for a while on other instruments.
I'm hoping you all can help me be a little smarter about how to talk with other band members about what I am doing with this instrument. Or trying to, anyway...
I know about "pads" (long held swelling chords), "fills" (single line improvisations between phrases), "licks" (short distinctive rhythmic parts) and everyone's favorite, "sitting out" (not playing at all).
I can hear that there is a lot more than that going on in pedal steel backup but I have no idea how to talk about what those various things are.
When working out parts with a singer or bandleader, how do you discuss the different kinds of backup you can offer for a given section? What do you call the various types of accompaniment you can play?
Looking for any advice or opinions on the topic - thanks!
(Assume for the sake of discussion that the singer is knowledgeable about backup playing and not just a "do that thing I like, you know, the swooshy thing (waves hands)" kind of person... ) |
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Jack Stoner
From: Kansas City, MO
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 9:55 am
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I've been playing in bands since 1959 and Pedal Steel in bands since Jan 1970. I've had recording producers/engineers tell me what they want and I've had to practice to learn songs/licks for shows backing Nashville singers that want you to "play it like the recording". I played, briefly, in a cover band and had to copy recordings. Otherwise I've never had a local band/singer tell me how/what to play. _________________ GFI Ultra Keyless S-10 with pad (Black of course) TB202 amp, Hilton VP, Steelers Choice sidekick seat, SIT Strings
Cakewalk by Bandlab and Studio One V4.6 pro DAWs, MOTU Ultralite MK5 recording interface unit |
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Allan Haley
From: British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 10:31 am
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Excellent questions. I'm very interested to hear how the real pros talk to each other- both how PSG players talk to each other, and how PSGers convey their playing to other musicians. |
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Joachim Kettner
From: Germany
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 10:41 am
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There's also " Comping" wich means playing along to the rhythm of the tune. _________________ Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Jim Cohen
From: Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 10:55 am
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I can't think of much more than what's already been stated (mostly by yourself), other than some synonyms, for example:
Lick = Riff
Solo = Ride
Laying Out = Going potty... _________________ www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com
Last edited by Jim Cohen on 2 Dec 2017 3:10 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Pete Bailey
From: Seattle, WA
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 11:49 am
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Awwwww I was hoping there would be a lot of insider nomenclature like the "reverse stairstep" and the "flying sixths". |
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Don R Brown
From: Rochester, New York, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 11:58 am
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Pete Bailey wrote: |
Awwwww I was hoping there would be a lot of insider nomenclature like the "reverse stairstep" and the "flying sixths". |
Well, an empty fifth can lead to a missed stairstep...... _________________ Many play better than I do. Nobody has more fun. |
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Chris Templeton
From: The Green Mountain State
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Jim Cohen
From: Philadelphia, PA
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Howard Parker
From: Maryland
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 3:54 pm
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Jim Cohen wrote: |
Laying Out = Going potty... |
#1 "laying out" = chorus only
#2 "laying out" = verse, chorus and possibly turnaround
h _________________ Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L |
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Jim Cohen
From: Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 3:56 pm
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Howard Parker wrote: |
Jim Cohen wrote: |
Laying Out = Going potty... |
#1 "laying out" = chorus only
#2 "laying out" = verse, chorus and possibly turnaround
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Geez, now you tell me! After all these years?? _________________ www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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Kevin Fix
From: Michigan, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 5:26 pm What To Play and When To Play
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I have a feeling for when to play and what to play. Working with band members that play leads and fills I have learned to watch and listen to who is playing what and when. I blend in and out as needed. If a song has a specific fill or a lead we definitely put that into place at a rehearsal. |
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Kevin Fix
From: Michigan, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 5:38 pm Laying Out And Going Poty
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I have prostate issues and being 64 years old means I have to Pee more often. We play outdoor Festivals and County Fairs and play one and two hours straight through with no break. I was playing last summer and really had to go bad so I left early into a song and was back in time to put the fill in the last verse and put in the ending!!! Their was a porta john right behind the stage. Believe me, I scout out for a place to Pee before we start playing!!! I get teased about it all the time!!! LOL!! |
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Jim Cohen
From: Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 5:40 pm Re: Laying Out And Going Poty
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Kevin Fix wrote: |
I have prostate issues and being 64 years old means I have to Pee more often. We play outdoor Festivals and County Fairs and play one and two hours straight through with no break. I was playing last summer and really had to go bad so I left early into a song and was back in time to put the fill in the last verse and put in the ending!!! Their was a porta john right behind the stage. Believe me, I scout out for a place to Pee before we start playing!!! I get teased about it all the time!!! LOL!! |
See? See? THAT's what I mean by "Laying OUT"!! LOL! _________________ www.JimCohen.com
www.RonstadtRevue.com
www.BeatsWalkin.com |
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gary pierce
From: Rossville TN
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Posted 2 Dec 2017 7:56 pm
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This made me remember one time we played with Merle Travis at the Peabody in Memphis, and just before we started he turned to the guitar player and said, you can "lay out" on this one. |
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Barry Blackwood
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Posted 3 Dec 2017 9:30 am
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Intro - turnaround(ride) - outro. |
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Bob Carlucci
From: Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 3 Dec 2017 10:52 am
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My backup parts, in descriptive terms..
Fatiguing
Irritating
Amateurish
Grating
Obnoxious
Putrid
Discordant
Inharmonious
Dissonant
not to mention- Cacophonous _________________ I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Ken Campbell
From: Ferndale, Montana
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Posted 3 Dec 2017 11:02 am
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I'm going with crappy for the term I use. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From: Austin, Tx
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Posted 3 Dec 2017 11:11 am
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In a country band:
Kick off : Intro . The intro is also called turn around . The solo might be the turn around or a chorus or a full verse depending on how long they want to stretch the tune.
Twining means harmonizing a melody
Cha cha cha is a type of tune ending
Family key is G major
Dog is D
Crowbar whole step is a modulation.
Waylon beat is a simplified disco drum beat.
Flat tire shuffle is a drum beat
I’ll think about it and see if there is anything more interesting. It’s mostly practical and easy to yell across a loud stage. _________________ Bob |
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Joachim Kettner
From: Germany
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Posted 3 Dec 2017 11:22 am
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Vibrato and bar shiver _________________ Fender Kingman, Sierra Crown D-10, Evans Amplifier, Soup Cube. |
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Pete Bailey
From: Seattle, WA
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Posted 3 Dec 2017 11:28 am
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Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
Twining means harmonizing a melody |
I had not heard this one before. That's exactly the kind of term I was hoping to learn about, thanks Bob.
Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
Family key is G major
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Ha! Another band I play with calls out C major as "The People's Key".
I'll tell them about this one, they'll love it. |
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Fred Treece
From: California, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2017 10:11 am
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I don't know if there are terms for it, but I try to keep out of the singer's range and off the bass line with chords when I'm comping, and also lay off the vibrato during vocals.
"Groove" dictates what every player should be doing to give the song its rhythmic character when they are not soloing or filling.
"Dynamics" are usually volume-oriented changes, but can also involve complexity and layering in more parts.
"Cajun Ending" - end on the IV chord. |
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Tucker Jackson
From: Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 5 Dec 2017 11:29 am
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Truth is stranger than fiction. For fun, I started making up jargon to describe licks to a bandleader I work with. I probably lifted the idea of doing this from Dan Dugmore after seeing a video where he named his licks.
Wanky-Dank (n.) - A lick. The "bup-BAHHH..." AB-pedal lick that ends every country song from 1962-1972.
Wanky-Wanky (adj.) - A style. Specifically, country, laid on with extra sauce.
Wing-Ding (n.) - A fancy, whiz-bang lick.
Doo-hickey (n.) - A simple lick.
+++
Actual conversation:
"Really? You want a wanky-dank at the end of the verse? I was thinking a simple doo-hickey. Yeah, yeah, don't worry, I'll wanky-wanky it."
. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From: Austin, Tx
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Posted 5 Dec 2017 2:07 pm
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Pete Bailey wrote: |
Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
Twining means harmonizing a melody |
I had not heard this one before. That's exactly the kind of term I was hoping to learn about, thanks Bob.
Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
Family key is G major
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Ha! Another band I play with calls out C major as "The People's Key".
I'll tell them about this one, they'll love it. |
The twinning harmony is with 2 single note lines. Not a chordal harmony. Like twin fiddles in western swing or a double lead in Motley Crew. _________________ Bob |
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Bob Hoffnar
From: Austin, Tx
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Posted 5 Dec 2017 2:16 pm
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You know the intro/kick off thing right ?
fifteen eleven, forty five fifty one... and all that.
There are thousands of drummer/groove phrases. But that is another world. _________________ Bob |
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