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Author Topic:  ZB Custom question
Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 20 Oct 2017 8:32 pm     Reply with quote

I just piked up a ZB Custom D10. I am a novice and the only problem I am having getting it up and running so far is when I screw one of the back legs in and it bottoms out and the hole for the pedal bar does not align. The legs are number stamped so I know I have it in the right hole.
There is a heavy knurled section; is this just a grip to screw the leg in? Can the grip section be loosened to adjust the legs height which would also allow me to align it with the pedal bar?
It looks like at one time someone crossthreaded the leg and the first few threads are buggered up; probably causing a deformation in the I.D. thread housing preventing the leg from going just a bit more.
I am a machinist and can fix this problem but it would be so much easier if the legs adjusted. I tried loosening the knurled section by hand but had no luck. I didn't want to go at it with a pair of channel locks only to find out it doesn't loosen.
Another question, how much play should be in the knee levers before engagement? The RRL has a considerable amount of play before engagement.
Thanx


Last edited by Jerry Dragon on 20 Oct 2017 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jim Cohen


From:
Philadelphia, PA
Post Posted 20 Oct 2017 8:40 pm     Reply with quote

Yes, the grip section is designed to be loosened to allow for adjustment of the legs, including turning the narrower part so that the hole lines up where needed, as well as length/height.
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Eric Dahlhoff


From:
Point Arena, California
Post Posted 20 Oct 2017 10:15 pm     Reply with quote

And the knee lever should only have a small amount of play before it engages.
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Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 21 Oct 2017 3:17 am     Reply with quote

thank you very much gents. Looks like I have some work to do. This contraption is in very nice condition otherwise, the hardware looks almost new. Heavier than hell. Must be 80lbs or more in the case?
This is not what I was really looking for, I was looking for an S10, but I couldn't pass her up for the price.
Somewhere along the line someone replaced the Klusons on the E9 neck with Grovers. I might have to do that to the C6 neck, it looks so unbalanced.
I could have bought a new student model but figured this would be better? If not I can sell it maybe and get a decent S10.
Anyone know how to date the guitar? Serial number 0101 I think. It is stamped on the undercarriage?
Came with an extra set of rods and two pedals or knee levers, can't tell which?. They are stainless steel with hearts on the ends of them, don't know who they are made by?
This thing ways a ton and is built like a tank. I had a another D10 at one time and compared to this it seemed like it was made from cardboard.
Thanx again.
Jerry
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Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 21 Oct 2017 8:59 am     Reply with quote

Put a rag around the knurl, grabbed it with a set of pliers and voila, she came loose. Got it lined up and now the guitar is up and standing with the pedals on it. Thanx again. Next is to try and get her in tune which should be an adventure. I will have to lay under there and see which allen screw adjusts which pedal lever etc. You guys all know the drill. I am in uncharted territory.
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Eric Dahlhoff


From:
Point Arena, California
Post Posted 21 Oct 2017 9:06 am     Zb Reply with quote

Looks like maybe a sunburst finish from the top?
I think you need to post a shot of the front!
You can usually adjust the free-play by tightening the turnbuckles. The trick is to balance the pulls so that the strings bottom out at the same time.
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Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 21 Oct 2017 11:22 am     Re: Zb Reply with quote

Eric Dahlhoff wrote:
You can usually adjust the free-play by tightening the turnbuckles. The trick is to balance the pulls so that the strings bottom out at the same time.


that went over my head. I will figure it out. I don't know what the turnbuckles are nor the pulls. I will be getting to it. I will be retiring soon and this is my retirement project. I have to put on the F# string on the top and not sure which octave to tune it to. Is there somewhere with and exploded diagram of a PSG with all the parts named and explained? The front apron (is that the term?) has the worst wear on it, it is almost all black now. The rest of it is in pretty good shape.
It is sunburst but more of a maple look. Clearcoat over some light colored wood.




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John Bresler


From:
Thornton, Colorado
Post Posted 21 Oct 2017 12:23 pm     Reply with quote

Jerry:

Here3's a link to a long thread on "ZB Pedal steel guitars - please help" that may contain enough information to help in adjusting your ZB. From what I've read about them they have 'tone to the bone'!!

https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/004696-18.html

Cool Cool
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Jim Cohen


From:
Philadelphia, PA
Post Posted 21 Oct 2017 12:57 pm     Reply with quote

Interesting pedals! I've never seen that before...

As for the high F# string, it should be in the high octave, one full step below your 3rd string G# string. Typically the gauge is a 0.013.
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Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 21 Oct 2017 2:49 pm     Reply with quote

I don't know if the electronics work yet, I have not plugged it in. I was assured it works fine and I bought it out of a studio in Manhattan so I don't think there will be any issues; I didn't get to play it. At the price I got it for I just took it and didn't ask any questions. I was just happy it was still there when I got there and it was happy to get out of the city and back to the country. Had to drive about 300 miles to and fro to pick it up. I am not happy with the looks of the knee levers, I think I will make new ones at work. I started tuning the E9 neck and broke the high string. I went to the C6 neck and got that tuned. Haven't tried tuning any of the pedals yet.
I got two extra knee levers with it, stainless, one with a heart on the end and another with an arrow. Would like to find a matching pair.
Also came with an extra set of rods.
Anyone know how to date the guitar. Serial no. 0101?
Thanx for all the info guys.
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Sam Steele


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 21 Oct 2017 3:37 pm     Reply with quote

I love the metal work it has mojo!
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B. Greg Jones


From:
Middleport, Ohio USA
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 12:31 am     Reply with quote

Serial # 0101 would be a 1969 model built in Bakersfield California. The pedals have been modified heavily on this guitar. The four knee levers in the picture look to be originals but the 2 extra ones you have I don't think are. Looks like someone spray painted the front apron black. I would have had the same sunburst as the rest of the guitar. Show us some pics of the underside when you get the chance.

Greg
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Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 3:47 am     Reply with quote

I will take some pictures of the undercarriage and extra levers and post them soon. Can the front be restored to original? It looked the same as the back at one time. The pedals are stainless steel. When discussing PSGs what is right and what is left? Like in a car, everything is taken from the drives seat, same on the PSG?
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Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 4:34 am     Reply with quote

Here are some more pics. I have started reading the ZB thread, I WILL finish all 33 pages of it.
Thanx






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Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 4:41 am     Reply with quote

Here is the setup,
first pic is the E9 neck. You can't see the change for the A pedal, and actually no.1 is the B pedal and no.2 is the C pedal.
The knee levers are listed correctly, but wait.

Now I am confused, it shows 5 knee levers on the E9 neck and there are only four on the guitar? What is LVK?
Is the V for virtual? Can it go both ways? Then it should be the LACDCK?

The second pic is the C6 neck.

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Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 4:54 am     Reply with quote

Just some terminology protocol:

Left/Right is from player's perspective.

Left = tuner side
Right = changer side

LKL = left knee, lever moving to the left
LKR = left knee, lever moving to the right

LVK = left knee, vertical lever (push lever upward with knee)

I am not certain what you are saying but if the A pedal is to the left of the two pedals listed and if it raises strings 10 & 5 from B > C# then all looks proper.


Last edited by Jon Light on 22 Oct 2017 4:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 4:58 am     Reply with quote

Thank you John. Does the vertical lever look like every other lever, because I don't see one on this guitar? Also, what is the name of the piece the pedal rod hooks into and what is a bell crank. I made twenty bell cranks once for a gent on the site here. He sent me one and I copied it and made them on a CNC lathe and mill out of 304 stainless. But, I don't know what they do or what they are lol.
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Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 5:02 am     Reply with quote

The vert. can look different or it can look similar. On a ZB I know nothing.

Another, better term for bellcrank is "rod puller". It converts the rotational movement of the cross shaft to a linear pull of a rod, pulling the changer. Again, this is a generalized response and I can't say how well this applies to ZB.
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Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 5:18 am     Reply with quote

This chart also shows the RLK as active on the C6 neck. I was just laying under it checking it out and there is no action on the C6 neck. I inspected the connection of the RKL to the E9 neck. Then I noticed a hole through the cross rod that the RKL is connected to, that is directly below the C6 neck. It looks just like the hole for the hardware connection to the E9 neck but there is nothing there. Could it have been there to connect to the C6 neck at one time? I see no place a V pedal would have been connected. There is a small hole through the front steel plate on the body next to one of the larger holes that hold one of the cross rods for a knee lever but nothing else I can see?
Both holes I am speaking of can be seen in the pics.


Last edited by Jerry Dragon on 22 Oct 2017 5:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 5:19 am     Reply with quote

This is a net capture of a Mullen vertical and it would be an example of a vert that looks like any other lever, just on a different plane.

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Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 5:20 am     Reply with quote

By the way John. I lived in Saugerties for over 20 years. I have played in bands in the area over there for that length of time also although I gave that up about 3 to 4 years ago. I am usually in the area around once every three months to say hello to old band mates and to go to El Rancho on Rte 32 there.
Small World
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Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 5:29 am     Reply with quote

I'm slow on the social thing, Jerry--I've been up here for a year now but haven't gotten around much. But I know Eppert's name well--he's everywhere--and some other cats. I'm just getting ready to start getting my face out there and playing some. It would be sad to try to make a living at it up here but fortunately I'm retired and would be doing it for the music of it.
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Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 5:46 am     Reply with quote

after playing so many years in the area and not having the reputation Jimmy has I just finally gave up playing out. I was getting to old to be coming home at 2 am in the morning and trying to get up to go to work. That and all the clubs that closed up due to DUIs and no smoking in bars. Nobody wants to pay you anything. Playing all originals for the last 12 years didn't help much in getting gigs also and I had given up cover bands.
Jimmy is like the big gun around there and he deserves it. He is the best guitarist I have ever stood next to although he played bass with me when we played. When anyone comes in the area and needs a guitar player he gets the nod. His kids are exceptional also, Joey and Josh. Josh is the drummer for Coheed and Cambria and his own band Weird Science. Jimmy freelances most of the time but plays with a few bands consistently. I think his main gig now is the Gabe Butterfield Blues Band, not sure. Go see him, you won't be disappointed. He can kick ass on country also. He plays with the Paul Luke Band which does a lot of country type material, old country type.
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Jerry Dragon


From:
New York, USA
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 8:23 am     Reply with quote

referring to the end, plate is there anyway to tell which allen bolt is which without going underneath to check the linkage?
Also the piece the pedal rods connect to have two holes in them as if the rods can go in either. I was able to make my choice with A pedal rod, but when I tried with the other pedals they would not go into the inside hole. I would have to loosen the screw to move the piece out (bell crank?) to put the rod in then lock it back down? I seemed to get better response on pedal A with the rod on the inside hole.
I think I have to adjust all the pedal rods up a bit and get them further off the floor.


Last edited by Jerry Dragon on 22 Oct 2017 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Richard Sinkler


From:
Oakdale, California
Post Posted 22 Oct 2017 8:31 am     Reply with quote

Jon Light wrote:
This is a net capture of a Mullen vertical and it would be an example of a vert that looks like any other lever, just on a different plane.



Jerry...

For further clarification, the parts that are attached to the cross rods that the pull rods (not the rods from the pedals) are attached to, are bell cranks. ZB did not use them. They have that "yoke" system like on a multiple horse draw wagon.

You mentioned something about excess knee lever travel. Unfortunately those levers didn't allow for adjustments as far as the angle. Those levers just hung there, straight down to the ground from gravity. The pull rods don't start pulling until the lever hits that screw in the cross shaft. Is the "excess" travel you speak of, the distance from the spot you hit the lever until it contacts the screw? That was the one thing I didn't like about my ZB's. I actually made a block out of a 2x4 and mounted to the knee lever so when my knee was in between the 2 levers, the wood block would push the lever real close to it hitting the screw, so the lever didn't have to travel as far. Not real pretty, but it worked. I imagine the if you put a screw in a different location (at a different angle) on the cross shaft, closer to the lever, you might be able to take up that slack.

And you being a machinist, you might be able to come up with a better knee lever that has an angle adjustment. I'm sure someone has already done that at some point.
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