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Author Topic:  New forum member from Colorado searching teacher
Sam Steele


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 8 Oct 2017 3:49 pm     Reply with quote

First off Id like to make a post to say thanks to everyone who is active in posting all the awesome information on this forum.

I have only been paying close attention to the steel guitar world for a few months now and most of everything I have learned about has been from information I have read about on here.

I recently purchased a very beautiful steel guitar off the forum from a reputable member of this community.

I have since performed a successful pickup installation (original pickup damaged during transit) and many hours stretching my brain out trying to wrap my head around all the changes this guitar is capable of.

I recently hit a bit of a wall in my studies and am trying to search out a teacher or some mentorship to carry me further.

the Copedent on my new to me guitar is unusual therefore making it a little difficult for me find all of the information and advice i need to decide how i might adapt it to my playing style as it evolves. I have been a stringed instrument player all my life and have been playing non pedal slide guitar for most of the last decade. But this guitar has 12 strings and tons of changes. so according to one of my friends it takes at least 3 times longer to play! therefore time is short and I need a little jump

the coped is sacred steel e7 with some unusual changes compared to chuck Campbells chord change combo list outlined in his dvd. Particularly on pedals 6,7, and 8

here is the coped on my williams



also if anybody knows of any teachers around the Boulder/Denver Colorado area I would love to connect

thanks again

Sam Steele
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Stu Schulman


From:
Ulster Park New Yawk
Post Posted 8 Oct 2017 11:21 pm     Reply with quote

Chuck Lettes is in Denver,That's work you need!
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Chris Reesor


From:
British Columbia, Canada
Post Posted 9 Oct 2017 9:37 am     Reply with quote

Welcome to the Forum, Sam.
I recognize that guitar,and was wondering where it would end up.
If you wish to be able to use available E9 and C6 instruction materials or work with most instructors outside the sacred steel tradition, I'd recommend switching over to E9/B6 universal setup. There are plenty of parts there for a really loaded copedent.
Pedals 4, 6, 7, and 8 are similar to the C6 pedals usually found on E9/B6 though not necessarily in those positions. P7 is shifted from strings 5&6 to to 6&7 because of the sacred steel basic tuning.
P2&3 are the basic E9 pedals A&B, as you have probably discovered already.
Good luck on your new adventure. Hope your theory chops are strong Cool
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ajm


From:
Los Angeles
Post Posted 9 Oct 2017 3:56 pm     Reply with quote

There was a guy named Bob Kagy who used to post here that was in the Denver area.
Pretty nice guy.
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Don Walworth


From:
Gilmer, Texas, USA
Post Posted 10 Oct 2017 5:19 am     Skype Reply with quote

A lot of good instructors and instruction available via Skype.

don
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Jim Bloomfield


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 10 Oct 2017 1:31 pm     Reply with quote

Welcome! There's been a monthly get together in Denver for steel players this year. Email or PM me for details. I'll have to check to see if the gentleman is still putting them on. I've missed the last few bc of work.
Most folks I know haven't encountered or play the the unique tuning your steel has. Could make learning more difficult. There were a few good suggestions on how to change it if you wanted to.
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Sam Steele


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 10 Oct 2017 4:00 pm     Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies everyone,

I have been having a ton of fun reading and watching videos and learning how to play this steel. I do like this tuning and am convinced that if my right hand cooperates it can play just about any kind of music I may change the copedent over time, or just get another steel that is more "standard"

The sacred steel and e6 lock lever tuning are both really cool and Id hate to change it. I'm convinced a lot of the limitations are coming from my lack of knowledge about the tunings.

This guitar has the same top four strings as the e9 guitar and compared to my dobro playing the interval order is a little perplexing. If anybody has any recommendations on charts or scales for those four strings that would be awesome.

Thank you all for your recommendations and suggestions.

I wonder if anyone who has expiremented with the sacred steel copedent will comment
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Ben Waligoske


From:
Denver, CO
Post Posted 10 Oct 2017 5:42 pm     Reply with quote

Sam, what part of Colorado you in?

That's quite a guitar you got your hands on, with a copedent considerably different than most of what I've seen around the Denver/CO area, but don't let that stop you! Have fun with it in the sort term and start to wrap your brain around the new mechanics/approach that pedal steel presents - and you nailed it, work HARD on your picking hand - and in the long term if you think you want to play more of a "traditional" pedal steel tuning (12 string or otherwise) you can always decide that and act accordingly at a later date.

I can also recommend Chuck Lettes as a great guy and teacher, and Glenn Taylor may be another fellow to get in touch with as he plays steels he builds himself in a somewhat non-traditional tuning, so he'd be hip to both mechanics and some approaches on a tuning like yours I should think... plus lots of other great guys on the Denver scene.

Lastly, a handful of us Denver and surrounding area fellas have been getting together on the last Monday of every month at our buddy Dave Barker's place in South Denver to have a steel hang and pick a little bit for a couple hours... by my count that would be Monday, Oct 30th this month, so if you're interested in that or have any other questions, feel free to PM me for details!

Welcome to the madness Smile
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Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post Posted 11 Oct 2017 8:10 am     Reply with quote

You ought to change the copedant to a standard extended E9.

The sacred steel tuning was designed specifically to play sacred steel music. The standard E9 allows you to play many different styles.
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Jack Hanson


From:
San Luis Valley, USA
Post Posted 11 Oct 2017 11:15 am     Reply with quote

Mike Perlowin wrote:
You ought to change the copedant to a standard extended E9.

I second that emotion. For a beginner, that copedant would be akin to learning to run before you can walk.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
Oakdale, California
Post Posted 11 Oct 2017 12:26 pm     Reply with quote

I agree on going ext E9,or even a universal. You have all you need for a uno. Even a lever lock. Looking at the tuning, there is much of the E9, and even some B6 stuff. The D on string 5 is a killer for me. And unless you can find a Sacred Steel teacher or courses, or you are knowledgeable enough to decipher the tuning on your own, you probably won't get all that the tuning has to offer, which is a waste.
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 11 Oct 2017 1:44 pm     Reply with quote

Hi Sam,

Welcome to the madness. It's a "nice little hobby."

It's great to have another Colorado steel player. Our ranks are growing, very exciting.

I hope to meet you soon.

I wasn't sure if the monthly meet at Dave's was 4th Monday, or last Monday. I'm band-free right now. Or is it "between bands." Gotta show up for the next meet.
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Sam Steele


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 11 Oct 2017 6:36 pm     Reply with quote

Jack Hanson wrote:
Mike Perlowin wrote:
You ought to change the copedant to a standard extended E9.

I second that emotion. For a beginner, that copedant would be akin to learning to run before you can walk.


Im free fallin! Its a pretty intuitive tuning in a lot of ways. Thanks for your reply!
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Sam Steele


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 11 Oct 2017 6:37 pm     Reply with quote

Dan Robinson wrote:
Hi Sam,

Welcome to the madness. It's a "nice little hobby."

It's great to have another Colorado steel player. Our ranks are growing, very exciting.

I hope to meet you soon.

I wasn't sure if the monthly meet at Dave's was 4th Monday, or last Monday. I'm band-free right now. Or is it "between bands." Gotta show up for the next meet.


thanks Dan, it is madness indeed! I have spent way to many hours since the guitar was delivered and I have been having a ton of fun. I am glad the denver area has a meet up im looking forward to meeting you as well.
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Sam Steele


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 11 Oct 2017 6:45 pm     Reply with quote

Mike Perlowin wrote:
You ought to change the copedant to a standard extended E9.

The sacred steel tuning was designed specifically to play sacred steel music. The standard E9 allows you to play many different styles.


I am surely interested in sacred steel music the guitar however can play more than just one genre of music. It looks like ill have to arrange some skype lessons or travel to get more lessons for sacred steel tuning specifically. But if one is accustomed to changing tunings a lot like I have been for banjo dobro, guitar and Kora, this tuning does has all of the notes of your e9 just includes a seventh note that can be manipulated to achieve different chords and scales. with the knee levers. It can be omitted as well.

It has made me realize how much I need to study theory.

this website has been wonderful https://www.basicmusictheory.com/e-dominant-7th-chord

I have been playing along with the radio and it is amazing. I was hoping to post this to pick peoples brains and make them think about how they would play what they normally play on this guitar but it seems like its probably just hard to imagine unless you sit down at the guitar.

thanks for your response mike!
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Richard Sinkler


From:
Oakdale, California
Post Posted 12 Oct 2017 9:30 am     Reply with quote

You're right. No tuning is only good for one type of music. I've heard lots of people refer to the E9 as the country neck. Well, we all know that it can play pretty much any genre. Same with C6 neck (often called the jazz or western swing neck).

This a real interesting tuning for sure. Glad you are having fun. And, there is no such thing as spending too much time playing the PSG. Often times I still play/practice 8 or more hours if I need to learn songs for a band.
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Some anti-virus programs, like Trend and Norton, try to block my site and say it's malicious. It is not. Our computer experts on the forum have helped me and found nothing to worry about. It is safe to put in the exceptions list. See this post in Computers: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=301399
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Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post Posted 12 Oct 2017 12:13 pm     Reply with quote

Sam, If you're interested in music theory, I wrote a book about it that’s published by Mel Bay and is available from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/Mel-Music-Theory-Real-World/dp/0786645261/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1507837167&sr=1-1&keywords=Perlowin

I also wrote a supplement for the steel, that explains how the material in the book correlates with what the pedals do. This includes a section on how to read music on the steel

I send this for free to anybody who requests it. Of course, you have to buy the book for the supplement to make any sense.

I must tell you on all honesty that I get a royalty every time anybody buys a copy. I make about $30-40 a year, in $10-15 increments every few months. It’s not much, but mailbox money is always nice.

Getting back to your guitar, clearly it was designed for the E9/B6 Universal tuning. You could put that on, or you could put on an extended E9. Given that you’re just starting out, this is probably a better choice.

According to legend, during the 60s Buddy Emmons, Jimmy Day, Pete Drake, Lloyd Green and Hal Rugg used to meet at Jimmie Crawford’s house once a week to discuss pedal changes, and collectively they invented the E9 tuning. This may not be true, but the tuning itself is genius. It is WAY more than mashing the A and B pedals and playing licks. It can be used to play rock, jazz, blues, and can even do a credible job of imitating the Sacred Steel sounds. I play classical music on it.

The E9 tuning has practically unlimited potential. Its possibilities have barely begun to be explored, and it is only limitations are those of some of its players.

I strongly suggest you put on either an extended E9 or an E9/B6 universal.
_________________
My steels are Magnificent! Stupendous! Awesome!
-----------
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 14 Oct 2017 8:16 am     Reply with quote

Herb Steiner wrote:
Mike has a good command of the language and puts the basic necessities of theory out in a way that anyone with enough intelligence to play steel guitar could certainly understand.

It's a real asset and a worthy addition to the literature of music, IMHO.

I recommend the book to my students, telling them "you can pay me 50 bucks an hour to write this stuff down on a blackboard for you and lecture, or you can get this book and understand it in a few hours of concentrated reading."

https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum10/HTML/200660.html
From OP in the old forum. A recommendation by Herb Steiner is a strong endorsement. I'm getting a copy. Thanks, Mike!
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Mike Perlowin


From:
Los Angeles CA
Post Posted 14 Oct 2017 8:47 am     Reply with quote

Dan, if you send me an E-mail after you get the book, I'll attach a PDF of the steel guitar supplement to the reply.
_________________
My steels are Magnificent! Stupendous! Awesome!
-----------
Please visit my web site and Soundcloud page and listen to the music posted there.
http://www.mikeperlowin.com http://soundcloud.com/mike-perlowin
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John McClung


From:
Olympia WA, USA
Post Posted 14 Oct 2017 12:01 pm     Reply with quote

Sam, even though I'm a diehard extended E9 player, I'm going to respectfully disagree wit my friends involved in this thread, and encourage you to continue experimenting with your sacred steel copedent, see what unique things you can play with it. If Buddy Emmons hadn't experimented with added "chromatic strings" on E9, we'd all still be playing 8-string steels, and missing out on some wonderful musical possibilities. So figure some cool stuff out and record what you come up with, I welcome being amazed and perhaps even tempted by your findings!

I'd also recommend you connect with ex-Coloradan player/Skype teacher Rick Schmidt, who like me plays ext E9 and has big ears and could no doubt help you sort things out on your current tuning.

Perlowin, no disrespect meant!
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Sam Steele


From:
Colorado, USA
Post Posted 21 Oct 2017 3:33 pm     Reply with quote

Richard Sinkler wrote:
You're right. No tuning is only good for one type of music. I've heard lots of people refer to the E9 as the country neck. Well, we all know that it can play pretty much any genre. Same with C6 neck (often called the jazz or western swing neck).

This a real interesting tuning for sure. Glad you are having fun. And, there is no such thing as spending too much time playing the PSG. Often times I still play/practice 8 or more hours if I need to learn songs for a band.


Thanks Richard! What band are you currently playing with? Id like to listen if you have any recordings

thanks mike! I will check the book out

and thank you mr Mclung for your input!
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