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Author Topic:  Ques. for Carter peeps re: dogbone conversion
Howard Parker


From:
Maryland
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2017 1:29 pm    
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Question for those Carter owners that replaced dog bones with those locking barrels (or similar).

Were you able to use the existing pull rods or did you have to modify or replace?

Assuming you retained the Carter bellcranks.

Inquiring minds...

FWIW I have yet to snap a dogbone in this guitar's 14 year history. I do add a drop of Tri-Flo on the most frequently used bones. Maybe that's saved me for all these years.

I'm about to do my annual cleanup, lube up, tweak and thinking about my lack of bad luck Laughing

What's your experience?

TIA

hp
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Howard Parker

03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
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Jon Light


From:
Saugerties, NY
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2017 1:38 pm    
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Yeah--I changed out some of them.
I'm cheap so I no doubt tried to use the old rods which required cutting the hook off which I seem to recall left only just barely enough length. Pretty long ago and I'm afraid I'm not remembering well enough to be definitive.
FWIW, the best way I found to cut them was with a Dremel cutoff wheel.
If I were looking to do this now I'd check extra closely to see if I was confident about length--I'd hate to cut that down, be too short and have no rod at all. Alternately, I do like to have spare blank rod on hand to fabricate anything I need.
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Howard Parker


From:
Maryland
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2017 1:42 pm    
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Thanks Jon,

Eyeballing those rods. Some of them look really close.

I do have some of the barrels. I wouldn't mind a bulk purchase. Are the barrels Commercially available or only through steel guitar sources?

h
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Jerry Overstreet


From:
Louisville Ky
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2017 1:49 pm    
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I'm not a Carter owner so I can't offer any input to your issue, but I do have a question concerning the dog bone replacements.

I understand they're subject to severe wear and subsequent failure so I'm wondering if they couldn't be replaced by chicago screws, sex bolts, whatever you want to call 'em. They're available in many sizes and alloys including stainless steel. Seems this might be a viable alternative and would eliminate cutting rod ends and modifications to your guitars.
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jay thompson

 

From:
east peoria, il USA
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2017 1:50 pm     Ques. for Carter peeps re: dogbone conversion
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delete

Last edited by jay thompson on 22 Jan 2017 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jay thompson

 

From:
east peoria, il USA
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2017 1:51 pm     Ques. for Carter peeps re: dogbone conversion
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Howard,
Yes, it will take a different pull rod as I doubt one could straiten the hook well enough to pass thru the new hole.
I was fortunate enough to find brass standoffs already threaded, on ebay, at a very reasonable price. The only difference is they are 3/8" long, which makes them 1/32" beyond each side of the bell crank. Not a big problem as the sllen set screws are completely hidden inside the barrel nut. Had a jig made, which would center the 3/32nd inch pull rod hole in the barrel nut. Stainless steel, 3/32nd inch welding rod works perfectly for pull rods.
Regards, Jay Thompson
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Howard Parker


From:
Maryland
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2017 1:54 pm    
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I've been searching McMaster Carr for something suitable. Haven't seen anything that didn't cost an arm & leg.

Jay, I was thinking about threading back from the changer end and snugging up against the hook. Any thoughts?

h
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Howard Parker


From:
Maryland
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2017 2:01 pm    
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Jerry Overstreet wrote:
I'm wondering if they couldn't be replaced by chicago screws, sex bolts, whatever you want to call 'em.


Thanks Jerry! Now I'm wondering!!

h
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jay thompson

 

From:
east peoria, il USA
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2017 2:08 pm     Ques. for Carter peeps re: dogbone conversion
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Howard,
If you cut the hook near the center of the bend, and are successful in straitening remaining bend, it would work.
If you find the standoffs, you may want to use a letter drill just very slightly larger than 3/32nd" which will allow for a minimal remaining bend in the rod.
Regards, Jay Thompson
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Howard Parker


From:
Maryland
Post  Posted 22 Jan 2017 2:44 pm    
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I have apparently taken part in this conversation before Here!

The memory fails.

h
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 23 Jan 2017 9:26 am    
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I converted the A, B, and C pedals. I bought the barrels from Al Brisco. Expensive. I made new rods from 3/32" stainless welding rod I got cheap through Amazon. Only required threading. I did use new nylon nuts too. I found some of the threaded barrels online somewhere in bulk, but can't remember where (it may have been Amazon too, or an online fastener company), but I have no way to drill the hole for the rod. One thing I would do is search for the set screws that would fit the threaded holes. I was not able to find them at any good hardware store. The one's you get from Brisco have the socket head cap screws, which can interfere with other rods.

I cut the rods a little longer than needed so it is easier to get the exact amount of slack I want. If I could drill the holes and find the right set screws, I would change out all my dog bones. It is also a lot easier to feed the rod in from the changer end, than try to feed rods among other rods that always seem to be in the way. And, not having part of the rod wrapped around the barrel (like it does with the dog bone) allows easier passage of rods under (or above) the barrel.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 23 Jan 2017 9:27 am    
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Howard Parker wrote:
I have apparently taken part in this conversation before Here!

The memory fails.

h


Still a good subject to bring up again.
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George Macdonald

 

From:
Vancouver Island BC Canada
Post  Posted 23 Jan 2017 9:48 am     Dog Bones
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I've had my Carter U12 for almost 13 years now and have never had a dog bone break. I do have spares if that does happen. The Carter system of dog bones and hooked rods is not as user friendly as the old MSA system of straight rods, collars and set screws though. I do put a tiny drop of Tri-Flow on the bones about once a year which helps to keep them from wearing.
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Bob Knetzger


From:
Kirkland, WA USA
Post  Posted 23 Jan 2017 11:25 am    
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If a dog bone breaks you can easily fashion a better-than-new replacement version.

Use some solid brass rod the same outside diameter of as large diameter of the dog bone (slides in to the curved pulling position in the bell cranks). Drill a matching hole in the center of two short brass parts. Use some STEEL drill rod that's the same diameter as the small "middle" diameter of the dog bone (just fits inside the bent end of the pull rods), Press fit a short bit of the steel rod into the drilled brass. Add a drop of Locktite. Back off the pull rod, replace the dog bone and snug up the rod and tune.

No inside stresses, no sharp inside corners, no weakened center shaft area like the original all-brass parts.Overkill for ALL pulls but perfect for the often-used B pedal pulls.
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Howard Parker


From:
Maryland
Post  Posted 23 Jan 2017 1:20 pm    
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Bob Knetzger wrote:
If a dog bone breaks you can easily fashion a better-than-new replacement version.


Pictures, Bob? I'm having a tough time visualizing your description.

h
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Bob Knetzger


From:
Kirkland, WA USA
Post  Posted 23 Jan 2017 3:09 pm    
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Hope this helps. ( I skipped drawing the pipe smoking dad ala Roy Doty's wordless workshop).

Purists may prefer to use a brass or bronze rod for the center to avoid similar material wear, but I doubt that's really a factor. I'd bet even in brass this three piece design would be less likely to fail: no sharp machined inside corners to get stress cracks. Grease it if you must.
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Howard Parker


From:
Maryland
Post  Posted 23 Jan 2017 5:19 pm    
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Hahahaha

Thanks!

h
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Michael Remming


From:
Kimberly, Idaho, USA (deceased)
Post  Posted 27 Jan 2017 8:53 am    
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I bought some barrels with set screw from forum member Brian Henry. All you need to do with these is cut the hook off of the pull rod, touch it up with a file, and assemble. The attached picture shows the right pull rod with the newer barrel and the left shows the original rod with the hook and dog bone for reference.

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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 27 Jan 2017 10:50 am    
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Michael Remming wrote:
I bought some barrels with set screw from forum member Brian Henry. All you need to do with these is cut the hook off of the pull rod, touch it up with a file, and assemble. The attached picture shows the right pull rod with the newer barrel and the left shows the original rod with the hook and dog bone for reference.



I did the same on my A, B, and C pedals. I made my own rods as I wanted them to extend a little past the barrel for adjusting the slack. The only thing wrong with this method is the socket head cap screws. They can interfere with other rods. Putting set screws in instead is what I would like to do. I just can't find the correct ones in any of the hardware stores I searched in.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.
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Michael Yahl


From:
Troy, Texas!
Post  Posted 27 Jan 2017 10:51 am    
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What is the diameter and the width of those barrels?
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Howard Parker


From:
Maryland
Post  Posted 27 Jan 2017 11:11 am    
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Michael,

Here are the original dog bones, from an old thread.




hp[/img]
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 27 Jan 2017 11:13 am    
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3/16 diameter. 5/16 long. 3/32 rod hole. Not sure of the threads. I have found the barrels (called threaded standoffs) pretty cheap online, but I don't have a way to center the rod hole.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.
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Michael Remming


From:
Kimberly, Idaho, USA (deceased)
Post  Posted 27 Jan 2017 11:49 am    
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Richard, I did the same A,B,&C pedals. It gets really tight after that. There is enough extra thread on the allen head screw that a person could cut it down or change them out for a set screw.

Michael I'll check dimensions of the barrels when I get home.

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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
Post  Posted 27 Jan 2017 5:15 pm    
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I've determined that I need 4-40 set screws. I just couldn't find any. I'll have to check online.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, NV400, NV112 . Playing for 54 years and still counting.
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Dan Robinson


From:
Colorado, USA
Post  Posted 27 Jan 2017 8:25 pm    
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These have a knurled cup tip. Better grip especially if you have stainless rods.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#90289a103/=163nxt6
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