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Author Topic:  Pro Tools question
Larry Haas


From:
Morganton, North Carolina USA
Post Posted 16 Jan 2017 1:51 pm     Reply with quote

I saw a complete setup of protools that was made for windows 7 at a pawn shop today. It had the box, cables, disks, key and a small instruction book. It was made for windows 7 and I don't have but windows 10 and xp. It also had a firewire cable and my computer doesn't have a firewire port.
Would it be useless to think about getting this. I know a few years back they were expensive.
Could I get an adapter for the firewire setup to usb and would it work OK with that.
I use the Presonus audiobox 44vsl now but I know the protools is a lot better.
Any help on this idea would be appreciated.

Richard
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Jim Park


From:
Carson City, Nv
Post Posted 16 Jan 2017 4:26 pm     Re: protools Reply with quote

Larry,
Protools is just the computer program. There are many Interfaces that will work with Protools. I wouldnt buy any version lower than PT10. If it has disks it is an old version, the newer versions download from Avid. If it has a Firewire cable it may have been for a Mac. I dont think PCs ever had firewire.....but if you have a desktop PC you can get a PCIe firewire card cheap
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Larry Haas


From:
Morganton, North Carolina USA
Post Posted 16 Jan 2017 4:38 pm     Re: protools Reply with quote

Jim Park wrote:
Larry,
Protools is just the computer program. There are many Interfaces that will work with Protools. I wouldnt buy any version lower than PT10. If it has disks it is an old version, the newer versions download from Avid. If it has a Firewire cable it may have been for a Mac. I dont think PCs ever had firewire.....but if you have a desktop PC you can get a PCIe firewire card cheap



Thanks Jim for the info. It has the interface ( I called it a box). Looked like maybe 3 or 4 disk. Also the Key to unlock it. All I did was look inside the box it was in. I only have XP on a desktop and 10 on a new laptop.
Think I'll pass on it but I can get it real cheap because the owner of the pawn shop is a friend of mine.
I have enough trouble trying to figure Audiobox from Presonus out.
They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks but I am trying to change that.

Richard
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC..
Post Posted 17 Jan 2017 12:03 pm     Reply with quote

you need to know what version it is...

XP will run anything 8 and under, Win 7 will run anything 9 and above. There is nothing wrong with 9, that is when PT's made the change to use ANY interface.

What version ?, what is the "BOX" ?


Disks reveal that it is around 9 or less as stated, maybe even older. I have PT's 8, it has several disks, I also have PT 12, it was a download from my AVID account.

And you better be able to get a $$$ return because Pro Tools uses a registered Ilok key , it is registered to the previous owner and it can be an issue to get it transferred to you if at all.

Check it all out before making the plunge, it may also be a promotional package .
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<b>Steel Guitar music here >>> http://www.tprior.com/five.htm</b>

Emmons Steels, Fender Telecasters
Pro Tools 8 and Pro Tools 12
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Larry Haas


From:
Morganton, North Carolina USA
Post Posted 17 Jan 2017 12:21 pm     Reply with quote

Tony Prior wrote:
you need to know what version it is...

XP will run anything 8 and under, Win 7 will run anything 9 and above. There is nothing wrong with 9, that is when PT's made the change to use ANY interface.

What version ?, what is the "BOX" ?


Disks reveal that it is around 9 or less as stated, maybe even older. I have PT's 8, it has several disks, I also have PT 12, it was a download from my AVID account.

And you better be able to get a $$$ return because Pro Tools uses a registered Ilok key , it is registered to the previous owner and it can be an issue to get it transferred to you if at all.

Check it all out before making the plunge, it may also be a promotional package .


Hey Tony
I have in the past read a lot of your post about protools. The box I am talking about is the box the mic and instruments plug into. I would have to go back and get the model numbers. I am sure he has had this for a long time in his pawn shop. He does a lot of music business for the area.
I read the necessary stuff on the back of the box and it said for windows 7. It does have the loc key and maybe that is why he can't sell it because of the transfer of it. I know nothing about protools except from what you have posted in the past so I think I'll not worry about it. I do use Presonus Studio one 3.3 and still trying to learn something from it. Band in a box and Studio one is the only thing I am using now but thought the protools would be good to play with. We haven't talked price yet but I was told by one of the employees that I could get the protools for a song and dance. He has $450.00 on the sticker so I am thinking I might be able to get it for around $200.00
By the way I lived in Charlotte for 25 years before moving back to my hometown of Lenoir in the late 70's. Graduated from Harding High. Long time ago.

Richard
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC..
Post Posted 18 Jan 2017 2:40 am     Reply with quote

Hey Larry, asking $450 is quite a stretch.

If it says WIN 7 then for sure it's 9 or later . PT 9 and above allow the use of ANY brand interface so that is a good thing. The only question would be if the ILOK is registered and if you can get it transferred to you or if it is already "OPEN" to a new user.

Pro Tools registration requires TWO registrations, one for the ILOK and another for the AVID software. I know people who have transferred the ILOKS so it is possible, I have never done it. This is possible as many folks change PC's or hard drives crash etc.and they load the ILOK and software on a new PC.

It's a very easy process for registration. the whole point is to prevent us from running any version of PRO TOOLS on two, three or more PC's or MACS. The sharing thing.

Before you make the purchase ask the ILOK question in the Facebook Pro Tools Windows group. They are really good in that group and I think there are a few AVID guys in that room as well. Take a few pictures of what's in the box.

regarding price , before you offer anything you gotta know exactly what you are getting, PT version, is it a FULL featured package or a promo version, ILOK and exactly what interface ? $450 is quite a stretch.

Remember, many interface companies sold a scaled down version of Pro Tools with the interface, especially around the time of PT 9. The prices were around $100 or $150 at the time.

If it's a complete package that you can use and load with no issues, which would be version 9 ( probably) , then my take would be in the $150 range as Pro Tools is now well into version 12. I would not be shocked to see ver 13 in the near future. The interface thats in the box probably dates back to that era as well.

But, if you can get it and get it running with minimum issues it will be a fine package. Sure older but none the less, powerful .

Ok so here's the next thought, in late 2015 I bought a full perpetual license PT 12 from Sweetwater for $550 , it came with the eleven rack processor. I sold the Eleven Rack for $300 so at the end of the day I acquired PT 12 for $250.
_________________
<b>Steel Guitar music here >>> http://www.tprior.com/five.htm</b>

Emmons Steels, Fender Telecasters
Pro Tools 8 and Pro Tools 12


Last edited by Tony Prior on 18 Jan 2017 5:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Larry Haas


From:
Morganton, North Carolina USA
Post Posted 18 Jan 2017 3:40 am     Reply with quote

Hey Tony
I have to be over the way of the pawn shop in the next few days and I'll get all the info from it.
Many years ago I had Reaper installed on a computer and last night I went to their website to see what is available now and it has changed a lot. Looks very interesting.
I don't like Studio One 2 for some reasons. Their interface works good but the program just doesn't click with my old brain very good. I'm sure its my brain. I guess using a program is like driving a car. Some feel good and fit your driving style, others just don't feel right.
I'll post back what I find out about PT.

Richard
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC..
Post Posted 18 Jan 2017 5:43 am     Reply with quote

Larry, Reaper is a fine program but it comes EMPTY. It is my understanding from others in forums that you need to go dig up free downloads for effects, patches etc. OR buy them.


Reaper is NOT a full featured program , that doesn't mean it's not good, just not a FULL Production package with everything contained inside.

I am not meaning to DISS any DAW but when I read that Reaper is just as good as perhaps Sonar or Pro Tools, I will respond.

IF someone does not need or desire a full featured DAW then for certain a package like Reaper is a good choice. But if a full featured "workflow" package is in the cards then maybe spending a few more dollars is appropriate.

On another forum, in the recording section, a few die hard Reaper users had always claimed that is was as good as Pro Tools, until they needed to do some envelope editing, such as gain or normalization etc, then again when they came to realize that the meters were PEAK only and did not have an array of options to view meter signals, RMS, VU, Digital VU, Linear etc... The section is full of "How do I do this in Reaper" threads.

Even in our small world on the SGF, we read that Pro Tools or a DAW such as Sonar etc have too many useless Bells and Whistles, which of course is nuts. There is no such thing as Bells and Whistles, they are Workflow features or options. Thats why they are referred to as full featured production packages.

We should select the DAW package or recorder which best fits what we want to do and that can range from very simple to very advanced. But we all should know that a simple program cannot be forced into an advanced mode while an advanced package can very easily be run in it's most simplistic mode.

I have also read that a DAW such as Pro Tools cannot be run in a simple mode.


HOGWASH ! Exclamation
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<b>Steel Guitar music here >>> http://www.tprior.com/five.htm</b>

Emmons Steels, Fender Telecasters
Pro Tools 8 and Pro Tools 12
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Larry Haas


From:
Morganton, North Carolina USA
Post Posted 18 Jan 2017 6:56 am     Reply with quote

Tony Prior wrote:
Larry, Reaper is a fine program but it comes EMPTY. It is my understanding from others in forums that you need to go dig up free downloads for effects, patches etc. OR buy them.


Reaper is NOT a full featured program , that doesn't mean it's not good, just not a FULL Production package with everything contained inside.

I am not meaning to DISS any DAW but when I read that Reaper is just as good as perhaps Sonar or Pro Tools, I will respond.

IF someone does not need or desire a full featured DAW then for certain a package like Reaper is a good choice. But if a full featured "workflow" package is in the cards then maybe spending a few more dollars is appropriate.

On another forum, in the recording section, a few die hard Reaper users had always claimed that is was as good as Pro Tools, until they needed to do some envelope editing, such as gain or normalization etc, then again when they came to realize that the meters were PEAK only and did not have an array of options to view meter signals, RMS, VU, Digital VU, Linear etc... The section is full of "How do I do this in Reaper" threads.

Even in our small world on the SGF, we read that Pro Tools or a DAW such as Sonar etc have too many useless Bells and Whistles, which of course is nuts. There is no such thing as Bells and Whistles, they are Workflow features or options. Thats why they are referred to as full featured production packages.

We should select the DAW package or recorder which best fits what we want to do and that can range from very simple to very advanced. But we all should know that a simple program cannot be forced into an advanced mode while an advanced package can very easily be run in it's most simplistic mode.

I have also read that a DAW such as Pro Tools cannot be run in a simple mode.


HOGWASH ! Exclamation


I downloaded their free download and set it up this morning for my system.
You are right that it won't do a lot of things others will do. I started out opening a BIAB wave file and a midi file I made the other day. It so far wouldn't let me use it. I might be not having it set up right. I will play with it for a while and see if it will do what I want it to do.
I am not a computer geek and I need something that a 72 year old with a muddy brain can work and enjoy.
I made a cigar box guitar last month and really enjoying messing with it. It will record from that but can't add a backing track to play with yet.
Maybe I just need to continue with Studio One 2 and BIAB. BIAB is limited on what you can do also. So far I can do what I need to do with that setup.
Except for YouTube, there isn't much info on how to use that setup that I have found for Studio One. I can read their instructions but they just tell what it is and nothing about why I might need this for a song.
Does PT have much training videos that can be watched to learn to do some editing or are you on your on for figuring out setups and programming? PT's might be a lot over my head but I like trying new things. Keeps the mind and body going.

Thanks so far for the info and help.
Richard
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC..
Post Posted 18 Jan 2017 7:10 am     Reply with quote

If you have not already done this, try saving your BIAB wav file to a separate folder first, outside of the BIAB program, then OPEN it in REAPER with the import function from that folder.

I drop all files into a folder named "IMPORT" on the recording PC. Windows can sometimes be very finicky with regard to files, the sources etc.
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<b>Steel Guitar music here >>> http://www.tprior.com/five.htm</b>

Emmons Steels, Fender Telecasters
Pro Tools 8 and Pro Tools 12
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Larry Haas


From:
Morganton, North Carolina USA
Post Posted 18 Jan 2017 7:22 am     Reply with quote

Tony Prior wrote:
If you have not already done this, try saving your BIAB wav file to a separate folder first, outside of the BIAB program, then OPEN it in REAPER with the import function from that folder.

I drop all files into a folder named "IMPORT" on the recording PC. Windows can sometimes be very finicky with regard to files, the sources etc.


Thanks Tony
That worked great. It's good to get the info needed from people that know what they are doing.

Thanks
Richard
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC..
Post Posted 18 Jan 2017 12:56 pm     Reply with quote

Larry , good ! Glad to share !
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<b>Steel Guitar music here >>> http://www.tprior.com/five.htm</b>

Emmons Steels, Fender Telecasters
Pro Tools 8 and Pro Tools 12
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Rick Schacter


From:
Portland, Or.
Post Posted 19 Jan 2017 8:19 pm     Reply with quote

I recently loaded the trial version of Reaper to try it out.

It does have some FX plugins included with the software.
I haven't tried them out yet so I couldn't tell you if they're any good or not.

Studio One has been my main DAW, but that's just my preference.
It may not be the DAW of choice for some people.

These days there are at least a few DAW's that are plenty good enough to do whatever recording project you'd like to do. Reaper is one.

No, the editting features might not be quite as slick as some of the other DAW's, but you can still accomplish most of the tasks that you'll need to.
The price tag for Reaper is very appealing too.
Not to mention that it doesn't require a computer with a lot of horsepower to run smoothly.
It will run on any version of Mac OSX as well as a computer that is still using Windows XP.

I won't be dumping Studio One anytime soon, but so far I'm impressed with Reaper.

Larry Haas,
Your Presonus 44VSL should be a fine interface and should be compatible with any DAW that you choose.
I'm not dissing Protools at all, it's a great DAW.
But it's not the only DAW that will get the job done.

Of course, if you're planning to work with several pro studios and it's what you do for a living, then maybe you'd like to use Protools so you could transfer your entire project into their system.
Even with that being said, it is still possible to transfer your files to their system no matter what DAW you use. It can be done.
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Jim Smerk


From:
Ohio, USA
Post Posted 19 Jan 2017 10:01 pm     Reply with quote

"I use the Presonus audiobox 44vsl now but I know the protools is a lot better."

IMHO, NO, it is not. PT is one of the most convoluted programs I ever used, but I had to learn it so I could share files when i was running a small studio. Cool
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC..
Post Posted 20 Jan 2017 2:22 am     Reply with quote

Jim Smerk wrote:
"I use the Presonus audiobox 44vsl now but I know the protools is a lot better."

IMHO, NO, it is not. PT is one of the most convoluted programs I ever used, )



Thats an opinion. PT's like any full featured DAW can be run in a very simplistic mode .

Pro Tools is NOT better, that I agree with, it's not for everyone. But it is far from convoluted.

Software , all software, any software, many times we confuse flexibility with complexity.

I wish I could give everyone a 30 minute overview of PT's simplicity and how to build on it.

Give any software package to 50 people, the exact same software, ANY software...

20 will love it and have NO issues
20 will say it's just ok and still have no issues
5 will say it's too hard to use but still struggle thru
5 will say it doesn't work and it's full of bugs


The biggest issue with many DAW's in all of the forums is, we criticize FULL Production packages like Sonar or Pro Tools because we are comparing them to a "NON" Full Production package.

If you guys think you don't like Pro Tools, you oughta read the comments in the PRO TOOLS forums. Users complain about all sorts of stuff, bugs, ask for help etc, Others point them in the right direction or tell them what they are doing wrong, then we never hear from them again.

My favorite is..

"I just downloaded Pro Tools, it's full of bugs, I can't get it to run "

Of course the download is the exact same download that the rest of the planet is using .

Then we learn that the user had the wrong Windows setup or the interface was never loaded properly, something along those lines. And we never hear from that user again.

Bottom line, use what works for you and allows you to get your sessions done . Me, as everyone here knows, I use a full featured DAW, two versions running, PT 8 and PT12 , neither are convoluted to me. I probably use 30 or 40 % of PT's under the hood power but here is also what I know, if I am in a session and hit a stumbling block,( which I have ) all I have to do is look it up and resolve it. I absolutely know it can be resolved from within. If I am desperate I can call a handful of studio engineers that I know that run PT's , both locally or around the region, they will point me to the fix. Then as a result, I learned something new which is under the hood.

I'm not going to have someone pay for my time and services to produce a demo , then hit a stumbling block which cant be resolved. The funny thing about stumbling blocks , you don't know you have one until it arrives.

Full production DAW's such as Pro Tools, Sonar etc, are nothing but TOOLS. Use the tools that best fit the job.

A session Engineer on Music Row once said to me about Pro Tools, it's like a mechanic owning 6 sets of various sockets and wrenches, he may only use 1 set daily but he KNOWS he has 6 sets in the tool box should he run into an issue. Now consider if he only owned 1 set of sockets.

I laughed and said is that like going to Lowes halfway thru a project to buy another wrench ? he said yeh and you gotta pray they actually have the wrench you need !


Remember, I am not advising anyone to use a "Full Production" DAW, I am just reminding you that comparing one to another may not be accurate.
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<b>Steel Guitar music here >>> http://www.tprior.com/five.htm</b>

Emmons Steels, Fender Telecasters
Pro Tools 8 and Pro Tools 12
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Larry Haas


From:
Morganton, North Carolina USA
Post Posted 20 Jan 2017 3:52 am     Reply with quote

That was a good response Tony.
I always considered Protools to be a lot better than a cheaper priced one. I kinda look at things like this as if I owned a mercedes and a volkswagen bug, both will get you to where you are going but one will be more comfortable. I did get the studio one and Reaper to work with your help when saving from BIAB. With anything, if you have a stumbling block, someone is around that can help if you know where to ask.
Well I got up this morning and I usually turn the tv and computer on. New computer wouldn't turn on. Used it all day yesterday but nothing this morning. Oh Well back to Staples this morning. Glad I bought the warranty.
I am still going to the pawn shop to get the PT info but since I have the Studio One working pretty good, I won't worry to much about getting it.

Larry
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Tony Prior


From:
Charlotte NC..
Post Posted 20 Jan 2017 12:08 pm     Reply with quote

Larry I wouldn't say PT's is better, it certainly has a much deeper feature set , but better is suggestive. Better for me can easily be worse for someone else !

Like I stated above, we should each use whats best for us but at the same time NOT compare a full featured DAW with one that is NOT full featured. At the same time If I can't get something to work that doesn't everyone else can't either.

such is life ! Smile

Just look at each of us as Steel players, heck, we mostly all have the same if not a very similar E9th tuning , don't we ? But yet..do we all play the same ? Question
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<b>Steel Guitar music here >>> http://www.tprior.com/five.htm</b>

Emmons Steels, Fender Telecasters
Pro Tools 8 and Pro Tools 12
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Larry Haas


From:
Morganton, North Carolina USA
Post Posted 20 Jan 2017 2:03 pm     Reply with quote

Just look at each of us as Steel players, heck, we mostly all have the same if not a very similar E9th tuning , don't we ? But yet..do we all play the same ? Question[/quote]

Definitly not. I listen to a lot of other players off the internet and everyone has their own style and sound. Most that can play good make it look so easy. I am no where near what I would like to be but I am not looking for a career with it. Being 72 years old, I take too many naps now. HAHA
I stated the new computer quit. Well I was ready to take it back and thought about trying to turn it on one more time. It came on but took a little while to load. Might be a future problem but its working now.

Thanks for the communications and replies and help.

Larry
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Rick Schacter


From:
Portland, Or.
Post Posted 21 Jan 2017 1:44 pm     Reply with quote

I thought this article did a pretty good job explaining the differences between the different DAW's that are available today.
The only thing I might disagree with is that the author says Audacity is crappy.
It might have a limited number of features, but if Audacity works for you, then it isn't crappy.
In the end, it's about making music.
Your listener(s) won't give two flying rat's a$$es about which DAW you used.

http://ehomerecordingstudio.com/best-daw-software/
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Larry Haas


From:
Morganton, North Carolina USA
Post Posted 21 Jan 2017 5:06 pm     Reply with quote

Rick Schacter wrote:
I thought this article did a pretty good job explaining the differences between the different DAW's that are available today.
The only thing I might disagree with is that the author says Audacity is crappy.
It might have a limited number of features, but if Audacity works for you, then it isn't crappy.
In the end, it's about making music.
Your listener(s) won't give two flying rat's a$$es about which DAW you used.

http://ehomerecordingstudio.com/best-daw-software/


That was very interesting reading. I feel you are right about who cares what you use if it turns out good. Others don't know what you went through to get the end results or whether it was an easy to understand program or a difficult one to put together.

Larry
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werner althaus


From:
lincoln, NE
Post Posted 21 Jan 2017 9:13 pm     Reaper vs Protools Reply with quote

FWIW, i've been a Protools user (professionally for post production) since 1998 and I will continue to use it for one simple reason; It's the most intuitive DAW for guys like me who came from the tape era (ever wonder why they call a mixdown "bounce", that's a tape term) This is editing and mixing we're talking about.
But at home I use logic for music production because I don't mess around with the recordings much, I just play and mix, very little else.
Anyway, to make my point , there is one application for which I would never use Protools because Reaper does it much more reliably and that is live recording. You can't crash it, I tried. I've re-skinned the GUI to emulate Protools look, added and removed tracks, armed and unarmed tracks, all during a single, long uninterrupted 48 track recording pass, NO HICKUPs, try that with Protools.
My point: Choose the right too for the job, no DAW is better or worse than another , just more appropriate or less appropriate for the job at hand
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Godfrey Arthur


From:
Philippines
Post Posted 21 Jan 2017 10:04 pm     Reply with quote

Quote:
It had the box, cables, disks, key and a small instruction book. It was made for windows 7 and I don't have but windows 10 and xp.


I'm taking a guess and maybe the box is Mbox?



As a PT rig owner/user I would be very careful of trying to match OS with a DAW made for another OS. And Windows 10 is not a production stable OS.

If you need to use your 10 system get an Avid system made for 10 as most likely Avid worked around the 10 quirks to even think of putting out a system for that version OS.

http://www.pro-tools-pc.com/avid-windows-10-mboxes/

But still having said that personally I would stay away from 10 as this OS is designed to get people signed onto the "cloud" system where even DAW recording will be done online on cloud systems and you won't be recording with anything but an interface connected to the internet.

Whoa!

As many have stated on this thread, many bugs and complaints over the years expecially as computers/OS changed over the years, that PT (and others) had to scramble to figure out the issue which says nothing about all the aftermarket plugin makers who had to do the same and make their products work with other products in the same one chosen PT or otherwise environment. And if computers are made to fail so you buy new ones every couple of years, who wants to invest in an expensive DAW that will not be able to run because the computer stopped functioning?

I still use PTHD but have the older Mac system. Fingers x'd. Too much to upgrade as you have to upgrade everything from the computer, to the farm(core)cards and then every bit of plugin software that you have from other makers be it Waves, Spectrafoo, etc., and get licenses that will work on the iLok key with as little as possible extension conflicts, one hopes.

Audacity works fine for a free tweaker and has many free plugins that work if you know how to use them.

I recommend finding a system to purchase that you understand and appreciate and that will run on a pc that you happen to own or get a new pc already foolproofed test-ran with a chosen DAW. Afterall you're wanting to record more than you are trying to be a recording studio.

But as mentioned PT does have many features that are really pro about it and they thought of things way beyond the old tape/splice era that could never be done on a linear (tape system).

Non-linear (digital) is the way to go.
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