| Author |
Topic: I think I found a prototype to the first electric Nationals |
Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
|
Posted 14 Nov 2016 5:11 am |
|
National-Dobro built aluminum-bodied lap steels from 1935 to 1937 under several brands including National, Dobro, Supro and Bronson. They’re not particularly rare today, especially the Nationals, but they are excellent-sounding steels with a long scale, mellow voice, and lots of sustain. I’ve owned a few, but as soon as I saw this one I knew I’d be buying another. It’s substantially different from any other I’ve seen, to the point that I am pretty sure it’s a prototype.
 
Here are some major differences between it and production versions:
1) The body has two “horns†that transform it from the usual teardrop into the National “shield†logo.
2) The headstock, which is an open A-frame on production steels, does not have a cutout. There is an indentation in the middle, probably to save on aluminum, but the point at the bottom suggests that it’s decorative and was never intended to be cut out.
3) The volume pot is located in an unusual position. While the pots did move several times between 1935 and 1937, they were never located north of the pickup. Interestingly, there are two bumps near the tail where the pots would eventually be located; it’s possible that these are unavoidable casting marks and that National eventually moved the pots there as an easy way of covering them up.
4) There is no serial number.
Along with the early-style fretboard, a few additional discrepancies suggest that this steel is not a later whim but predates all production models:
5) “Pat pend†is embossed into the body below the bridge. The design patent was applied for in September of 1935 and granted in January of 1936, so it’s highly unlikely that National would bother to add this text after they had built many steels without it.
6) The pickup is quite different from any production model, and I would call it a more primitive design. Production steels had a conventional coil located at the ends of a horseshoe magnet, while this steel’s coil is wound like an early radio antenna – without a bobbin and wrapped in paper. This suggests that it was built before the merger of National and Dobro in 1935, since the later National pickup was apparently developed from the Tutmark/Stimson design used by Dobro as early as 1933.
Right now the steel is in transit (these pics are from the seller), so I’m not sure the extent of the restoration that will be needed. That, uh, “unique†paint job will have to go, as will the hodge-podge of replacement tuners. The seller described the pickup as untested, which is often Ebay code for “tested and non-functionalâ€. I'll know when it arrives. |
|
|
|
Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
|
|
|
|
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
|
|
|
|
Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
|
Posted 14 Nov 2016 1:55 pm
|
|
| Tom Pettingill wrote: |
| Once in hand, hopefully you can find clues as to what the original finish was / should be. |
I think the earliest production versions were all clear lacquer with gold paint in the body "panels", and that the black-painted version came later. I assume that removing the current paint job will remove anything else on the body; it will probably require dipping the whole thing in acetone (minus the fretboard and electronics, of course). If this happens, I'll just apply some wax to minimize oxidation and leave it silver. |
|
|
|
Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
|
Posted 14 Nov 2016 3:32 pm
|
|
| Noah Miller wrote: |
| ... I assume that removing the current paint job will remove anything else on the body ... |
Most likely, but the process might give you a peek at some of the underlying layers if there are any. You might try spraying a couple spots with straight lacquer thinner and see what happens. If the red is an acrylic, the thinner may crinkle up the red and show the underlying lacquer if still there.
_________________
Some misc pics of my hand crafted steels
Follow me on Facebook here |
|
|
|
Lee Holliday
From:
United Kingdom
|
Posted 17 Nov 2016 5:56 am
|
|
Nice find, I would paint the panels the black crinkle finish after striping the red, quite a few were not coloured but a tinted laquer over the bare aluminium.
See if you can get an auto body shop interested.
Regards
Lee |
|
|
|
Lee Holliday
From:
United Kingdom
|
|
|
|
Eric Dahlhoff
From:
Point Arena, California
|
Posted 17 Nov 2016 7:53 am
|
|
A cool piece of history!
_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan) |
|
|
|
Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
|
Posted 18 Nov 2016 1:43 pm
|
|
The steel arrived today. No major surprises, but I am having difficulty finding a solvent that works against this paint. I may indeed end up taking it to an auto painting place, or else I may have to buff the paint off.
The coil is definitely busted; I can see where the wires are frayed. The pot seems to be working, though. Interestingly, the back cover is made of particle board, not the normal aluminum. |
|
|
|
Chris Clem
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 18 Nov 2016 7:07 pm
|
|
| Hi Noah,This is a very cool guitar.As someone who has restored and refinished instruments for decades (now retired). First off stripping a finish as you might imagine is a messy job.Neoprene gloves and googles will be required.When ever I had to strip a finish I would always test the finish with just straight acetone on a rag.It should start eating into the finish in just a few seconds.Keep wetting the rag (don't pour the acetone on the guitar)And just work a small area at a time.The chances are good that the original finish is still under the red.The acetone will also eat into the original finish so you need to watch close to see when you reach that point.You probably will not be able to save the original finish but you should be able to see what the original color was.Good luck.....Chris |
|
|
|
David M Brown
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 18 Nov 2016 7:47 pm
|
|
| There is the option of just fixing the electronics and leaving the finish, such as it is, alone. just fix it and play it! |
|
|
|
Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
|
Posted 19 Nov 2016 3:03 am
|
|
| Acetone was the first thing I tried; it had no effect. |
|
|
|
Chris Clem
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 19 Nov 2016 7:03 am
|
|
| If acetone has no affect your options are not good.That tells me it is a Catalyzed finish.I have found only two ways to remove them.One was with a clothes iron which will crystallize the finish.Works OK on the flat parts,but smells really bad.Then an industrial head gun for the hard to get to spots. Not sure how that might affect the metal? Those Catalyzed finishes are just brutal to remove,wish I had an easy way to do but I don't think there is one. |
|
|
|
Lynn Wheelwright
From:
Clearfield, Utah, USA
|
Posted 19 Nov 2016 7:56 am
|
|
| Hi, Noah, I am pretty sure the pickup is not original;. By this time they had made a few of the early Dobro models using the same pickup they had used in the All Electrics. It would make no sense for them to abandon the technology they had been using for years and continued to use. This looks like the coil out of a Kay built from about 1938. Other than the obvious changes it is very cool. Congrats. I would be very interested to know if there are any signs of holes in the butt end for the vol and input like the first Dobro's. |
|
|
|
Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
|
Posted 19 Nov 2016 10:59 am
|
|
I dropped the steel off with some luthiers who are going to restore the body. I might have been able to get the paint off myself, but it would be logistically tricky in my apartment and these folks are going to put a coat of clear lacquer over it which I couldn't do.
Lynn - it's possible that they ripped the coil out of someone else's instrument, but there's no way to install the usual coil for this model. The casting appears to be specifically shaped for this coil. Plus, the leads coming off of it do not appear to have been tampered with. |
|
|
|
Lynn Wheelwright
From:
Clearfield, Utah, USA
|
Posted 19 Nov 2016 3:18 pm
|
|
Noah, did you notice if there were any holes in the butt end? I need to take a close look inside my early Dobro's, but I seem to remember they also have a depression for the pickup to fit in. Are you going to have it done in polished aluminum with gold panels?
Still a very cool one. I should have known it was you I was bidding against. |
|
|
|
Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
|
Posted 19 Nov 2016 5:13 pm
|
|
I didn't notice any plugged holes in the side at the tail, but the jack is located on the bass side a bit farther up.
I thought about the gold paint, but ultimately decided not to bother since I don't know that it was ever there. I managed to chip away a bit of the red over one of the panels and didn't see any evidence of gold underneath, but there was a thin layer of something soluble in acetone - probably lacquer - so I'm just having the whole thing covered in clear lacquer. |
|
|
|
Michael Greer
From:
Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 19 Nov 2016 5:56 pm
|
|
Noah
This is a great restoration story you have underway.
Sounds like you have the major details sorted regarding the body .
What do you have planned for bringing the electronics back to life ?
Looking forward to pictures as your project moves forward.
Great progress in very little time. |
|
|
|
Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
|
Posted 19 Nov 2016 6:00 pm
|
|
A couple of other things worth mentioning:
The frets are much smaller than normal National frets. They look like the the hyper-small mandolin frets that Gibson used on my 1907 A-3.
Also, the fretboard is finished; they probably sprayed the whole instrument after it was attached.
| Michael Greer wrote: |
| What do you have planned for bringing the electronics back to life ? |
That's still up in the air, but the good news is that the pot is scratchy but functional (and original, I think) and the magnet is still strong. The folks restoring the body are going to ask their local re-wind guy if he can make a replica of the coil; if not, I'll probably send it to Tom Brantley, who has rebuilt a few obscure old pickups for me before. |
|
|
|
Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
|
Posted 2 Dec 2016 3:48 pm
|
|
The cosmetics are done. I changed my mind about the finish; without the gold, it just looked incomplete.
Now it's just a matter of making a new coil... or at least making a coil that will work.
 |
|
|
|
Bill Sinclair
From:
Waynesboro, PA, USA
|
Posted 2 Dec 2016 3:56 pm
|
|
| Sahweeet! |
|
|
|
Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
|
|
|
|
Eric Dahlhoff
From:
Point Arena, California
|
Posted 3 Dec 2016 1:58 pm very cool
|
|
Super job Noah!
Is the saddle built in (cast), or is it a wood saddle like the "production" models?
Did you spray lacquer over the neck too, or mask it off? I ask because I'm cleaning one up & debating whether to spray lacquer on it, so I won't have to keep polishing the aluminum.
_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan) |
|
|
|
Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
|
Posted 3 Dec 2016 2:13 pm
|
|
The saddle is wood like the production versions.
Right now there is no lacquer on it. I'm not sure if it's worth the expense, so I'm going to wait and see how the surface ages. |
|
|
|
Michael Greer
From:
Ontario, Canada
|
Posted 3 Dec 2016 2:34 pm
|
|
Noah
Looks great....I agree ...the gold paint was a great call. |
|
|
|
