Scales and soloing on C6th

Don Benoit · From: Okanagan Falls, BC

What is the correct approach to learning how to improvise or solo swing & blues tunes on the C6th neck?

I am almost finished the Buddy Emmons basic C6th course and would like some input on how I should approach learning to improvise or solo a 12 bar blues tune.

Buddy Emmons article on pocket corners for the C6th seems to use only the major scale with B7 thrown in. http://www.buddyemmons.com/Pockets.htm Some blues players use the major pentatonic 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and minor pentatonic 1, b3, 4, 5, b7 scales. Then there is the blues scale 1, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7.

Question 1: Which scale is the most appropriate for country swing like Jimmy Day uses?

Question 2: When playing a swing scale over chord changes , do you move the scale with the chord change ie up 5 frets/ down 7 frets for a IV7 chord change etc or do you find the notes in the I chord position or other positions/ modes?

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http://www.steelguitar.ca

Scott Henderson · From: Camdenton, Missouri, USA

Thisis hard to explain over a computer but a good generall rule for western swing playing is to take the melody line and combine lead in notes with chord.you move from chord to chord of a progression and introduce each chord with a part of a melody line. western swing is notorious for great progressions that make this therory sound really cool. the chords will take you where you need to go on the melody line and make your playing real impressive dont worry about scales as much as the melody line. now improv thats a whole diferent story

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Steelin' away in the ozarks and life,
Scott
www.scottyhenderson.com

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Go to Ernie Renn's excellent site http://www.buddyemmons.com

Go to the Tab from Buddy section and check out an article w/soundfile called 'Blues to Use'

Other than that, playing either a blues scale, minor pentatonic scale, or even a Dom7 scale (major scale with b7 -- aka Mixolydian mode) can give you some variation. Some blues likes major 3rds, sometimes with 6th chords or Dom7 chords. Some likes minor 3rds, played off a mi7 chord. A 12-bar blues is a starting point that branches into more substitutions you can shake a steel guitar at. There are several courses for blues or jazz/blues piano or guitar for free on the web. Check them out. Good luck.

----added later----
oh, your questions:
1. In general, for swing a Dom7 mode will work fine. Jazz and swing are built on 9th chords and a Dom9 or even Ma9 will work for different tunes and applications.
2. The blues scale will work throughout the 12-bar blues progression. If you choose other scales, you'll have to think about it. There are a bunch of substitutions. If you're playing
C6 F7 C6 C7
(first line of 12-bar)
you can play the blues scale for all or
you can play a CMajor then drop back two for BbMajor over the F7, then back to the CMajor for the 6th chord, then either drop back two with P5 for the C7 (or C9) chord OR raise the A to Bb with a lever to get the 7th in root / no pedals position OR else play an FMaj scale for the C7. There's a million ways to play over blues or swing changes. Many musicians have built their careers on it. Listen to as many as you can for ideas.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 08 December 2003 at 04:17 PM.]

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

Exploring the pentatonic scale can be fun. For playing/improvising over blues one good idea is to repeat the same phrase even if the chord changes or one might only change one particular note and keep the rest of the phrase the same. Also playing the same note twice or more is common. Try to stay away fron bending the 2nd note to the 3rd (pressing Apedal in A+Bposition) Instead use a slide from the b3 to the 3rd if you want a blues sound instead of country.

Bengt Erlandsen

Don Benoit · From: Okanagan Falls, BC

Thanks Larry & Scott

Thanks for your answers.

I was looking at the Buddy Emmons "Blues to use" this afternoon as a matter of fact and have started translating the tab into the number system to see what he is doing because I need to understand what is going on.

Larry.. Do you play the Mixolodian scale at the Ionian (major) position or do you move the pattern up 5 frets? As I understand the modes, a person can take the major scale pattern for a chord position and move it up 5 frets and be in the mixolodian mode. More on this at http://www.dennysguitars.homestead.com/lessonsindex1.html

I also have Mike Perlowin's book where he says that the blues scale, sometimes called the pentatonic (5 note scale) is a special case where the scale is based on the position of the key rather than the chords. positions.

Don

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http://www.steelguitar.ca

John McGann · From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA * R.I.P.

I've been working with the C6 Scales and Modes book by Ken Albert and Jimmy Crawford- it's great for getting the lay of the land, has standard notation with the tablature-hard to find these days, but a real essential tool for C6th, at least for me...

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Don,
If you play an FMaj scale from C to C, you will be playing C Mixolydian which fits with Dom7 family chords (7th 9th, etc.). It will have a major 3rd and a flatted (minor or dominant) 7th tone.

On C6 the root for that chord can be on the 9th string and you can play an FMaj scale at the same fret as a CMaj -- similar to the pedals up / pedals down scales on E9. Use fingerboard charts. Pencil and paper work fine -- or Microsoft Excel or other spreadsheet programs can be used so that you can copy and edit to make other charts. I have charts for every pedal and combination on my guitar.

So you can go from a C Ionian with roots on 7 or 10 to F Ionian on the same fret (e.g., 12th), with the root on 9 without switching positions. OR, as you point out, you can move the bar. If you do move the bar, think about positions BETWEEN the two that can be used to bridge the gap. Your playing will sound much more fluid and melodic if you skip fewer frets at a time. Once again, the fingerboard charts are very useful for finding pockets and ways to navigate between them. This applies to single note playing or speedpicking on EITHER NECK.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Moved to "Pedal Steel" section.

Buck Dilly · From: Branchville, NJ, USA * R.I.P.

All of the above and: Don't forget that improvisations requires use of arpeggiation and skips as well. Strict adherance to scales will make you sound stilted. Use of arpeggiation and skips opened up my sound a lot. I don't think that there is a simple answer for your question, but knowledge of theory is indispensable. Learn what arpeggio and scale works over each chord within a progression. Than start variations.

Bryan Bradfield · From: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada.

Don -

Concerning your question # 2: "When playing a swing scale over chord changes , do you move the scale with the chord change ie up 5 frets/ down 7 frets for a IV7 chord change etc or do you find the notes in the I chord position or other positions/ modes?"

My response: I stay in the I chord position if the line being played needs to continue seamlessly through the chord change. I move to the "up 5 frets / down 7 frets" position only when there is a space where I can do it without interrupting the music flow.

Bryan Bradfield http://www.members.shaw.ca/DirtyHatBand/

John Lacey · From: Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada

Don, I would start the process by getting very fluid on the blues. Use Buddy's pockets from his articles focusing on the 4 and 5 chord positions as common places to launch your improvs. Because so much of the music is centred around 1,4 and 5 chords, you might as well be in a comfortable position to get all 3 chords. For example, when improvising in the key of C, utilize frets 3, 5 and 7 lots where you'll see Buddy's pockets for great blues notes. After you have a real feeling for the blues on C6, you can get into the more altered stuff.

Don Benoit · From: Okanagan Falls, BC

Thanks everyone for the inputs, comments and suggestions. Time now to go and practice!

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http://www.steelguitar.ca

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