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Topic: Aluminum FryPan, 8 string, project in the works |
W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2014 10:07 am |
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FryPan's finished.......
This is a prototype, working out designs. Next one will have a 5 degree bend on the head, and the head will be solid, tuners come up from behind.
I wound the pickup with 2 full ounces of 42AWG wire, I measure 11.64K resistance.
Wayne
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I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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Johnne Lee Ables
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2014 11:05 am Wow!!!!
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Impressive, Wayne...very impressive. I can hardly wait to hear it.
jl
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2014 11:56 am
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| Wow nice Job !!! |
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Jeff Spencer
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 11 Dec 2014 12:19 pm
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Congratulations! Looks wonderful  |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2014 9:19 am Re: Wow!!!!
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| Johnne Lee Ables wrote: |
Impressive, Wayne...very impressive. I can hardly wait to hear it.
jl |
Here is a link to another Youtube video of me playing my fry pan guitar. It is not a song but just plucking the strings a bit, showing what the guitar sounds like. Settings are wide open on guitar and amp.
http://youtu.be/A-c6g_vZak4
I just use the flat pick.
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2014 8:43 pm
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The following is a couple of design drawings, of two styles of neck/head designs for my fry pan guitar. Any comments on which one you think might look better?
The head has a 5 degrees angle which does not show in the drawing.
The neck is 3" on both. On the top design, it flares out to 4", then tapers back to 2.5" at the head end. On the second design, the neck is 3", the head begins at 3" and flares out to 3.5"
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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Jim Rossen
From:
Iowa, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 6:41 am
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The goal of a straight sting pull from the nut would favor the design at the top.
Jim |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 6:55 am
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| Jim Rossen wrote: |
The goal of a straight sting pull from the nut would favor the design at the top.
Jim |
That's true, but if you're going for a vintage look, the bottom with a slotted keyhead design would be hard to beat.
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Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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George Piburn
From:
The Land of Enchantment New Mexico
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 11:26 am Head Stock Design
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You want to have tuners similar a standard guitar, The lower drawing is best in my view.
The Upper drawing would be better if you wanted to go with Slotted Style and the concept of more straight string pulls.
Since you have a Mill and can create your nut units
You have a major advantage over hand slotting because you can use a V Cutter and exacting Spacing as well as depth of cut.
Every Aluminum Ricky I've ever examined the slots were all over the place in spacing - depths and so on.
The Main consideration on slots is the depth to prevent pop out - particularly on the center strings which are at the greatest angle to the tuner posts.
If you are not concerned about the ability to do slide in's from open to fret one or reverse glides into the open end sunset then you can have slots deeper than the string diameters.
If you want appease Hawaiian Style Players that want to do the open to and from fret one goodies then you must make sure the tops of the strings are all above the top of the nut.
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 1:26 pm
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Thanks for the feedback so far, guys, it helps a lot.
When I set out to design and build my own fry pan guitar, I was not exactly looking to do an exact reproduction of a Ricky, or the JB Frypan. I've designed 3 different heads for my frypan, all very different looking. Not sure which one I like the best. I have already begun the machining of the head that tapers from large at the nut to small at the end, and it's head is a separate piece that bolts on, which I doubt I'll do on future head/necks. I began to consider the second design yesterday and drew up a drawing that I posted, with two different designs. Both have a 5 degrees bend downward, which should help the string pressure to nut, and also might look better? I'm going to make a 3rd neck with the subsequent last design, in which the head starts at 3" and flares out, which I think does look more retro, especislly if I slot it (I doubt I will slot it as I like to use Grover tuners.) So my guitar will have 3 heads! :0 Well, not all on at the same time, of course.
Regarding the nut, groove design and depth seems to have a huge impact on quality of sound, I've discovered. And also having the stings above the nut a bit, and all the same height so slide ins sound good.
I'm not a good player at all, but I really enjoy playing my 8 string fry pan guitar. I'm trying to learn to play melodies, and not just chord progressions. I just purchased some hi-rider picks, as I thought they would work on my fingers but they do not. So now I'm concentrating on trying to play two notes at once with my flat pick and this seems okay. It's tricky to get the right strings, and remember which strings. I really admire the advanced players, it's not as simple as one might think it is.
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2014 6:50 pm
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Over on the Unofficial Warmoth forum, which is centered around using Warmoth wood to construct regular electric guitars and basses, we run into a LOT of nut questions. Regarding the slot shapes, I refer them to this:
http://www.lutherie.net/nuts.html
That part about a horn's bell, angling back away from the string-bearing surface right at the forward edge, is about as clear as it gets. I see that you are using a separate piece for the nut, which I think is wise (at least for now). Some early pedal steels and even some lap or console steels to this day have a "unitary" construction, the metal just ramps up and becomes the nut, but that leaves no room for adjustment (or improvement!). As discussed above, the one piece of advice from that article I don't follow on "underarm guitars" is the slot depth. If you're bending strings, you need enough depth to keep them put. Even the pull-off reasons for steel guitar above aren't all that critical, unless you're playing with such enthusiasm as to shatter glass bars on metal nuts, in which case the problem isn't in your guitar case.  |
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Tom Pettingill
From:
California, USA (deceased)
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Posted 21 Dec 2014 9:35 am
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That turned out great Wayne ... Nice job!
Doing a tilt back headstock is more work, but I definitely think its worth the effort. A 5 degree angle on the headstock should help. I generally end up around 7 - 10 degrees depending on the design. Basically I just draw it out so that the end of the headstock does not go past the bottom plane of the instrument so that it can sit flat.
For the shape, I'm partial to the retro Ricky shape, but thats just me. I understand not setting out to recreate an exact copy, but I think its no problem to celebrate the past if you want to.
.
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2014 5:22 pm
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| David Mason wrote: |
Over on the Unofficial Warmoth forum, which is centered around using Warmoth wood to construct regular electric guitars and basses, we run into a LOT of nut questions. Regarding the slot shapes, I refer them to this:
http://www.lutherie.net/nuts.html
That part about a horn's bell, angling back away from the string-bearing surface right at the forward edge, is about as clear as it gets. I see that you are using a separate piece for the nut, which I think is wise (at least for now). Some early pedal steels and even some lap or console steels to this day have a "unitary" construction, the metal just ramps up and becomes the nut, but that leaves no room for adjustment (or improvement!). As discussed above, the one piece of advice from that article I don't follow on "underarm guitars" is the slot depth. If you're bending strings, you need enough depth to keep them put. Even the pull-off reasons for steel guitar above aren't all that critical, unless you're playing with such enthusiasm as to shatter glass bars on metal nuts, in which case the problem isn't in your guitar case. |
The information on the link about the nut is very useful. I've tried a number of different slotting styles, some sound like a sitar, or buzz, or the tone does not come through, basically some of the matters brought out in the web page document. Nice work there, and it's appreciated that people are willing to share their discoveries with others. 
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2014 5:28 pm
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| Tom Pettingill wrote: |
That turned out great Wayne ... Nice job!
Doing a tilt back headstock is more work, but I definitely think its worth the effort. A 5 degree angle on the headstock should help. I generally end up around 7 - 10 degrees depending on the design. Basically I just draw it out so that the end of the headstock does not go past the bottom plane of the instrument so that it can sit flat.
For the shape, I'm partial to the retro Ricky shape, but thats just me. I understand not setting out to recreate an exact copy, but I think its no problem to celebrate the past if you want to.
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If I use 1.5" thick aluminum bar, I can get a 10 degrees bend. It means machining off a lot of metal on the neck, or using two pieces. Aluminum is heavier than most woods, and weight has to be taken into consideration. Anyway, your work is very beautiful!
I have no problem with the retro Ricky shape, and may end up going that way of design, anyway. I just did not especially set out to do that. I'm not sure about the slotting on the head, but I can do that, or go with the JB head design with no slots. I'm mostly interested in getting 'that sound', which is where the real challenge is.
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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