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Post new topic A New Pedal Change, Trick or Treat?
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Author Topic:  A New Pedal Change, Trick or Treat?
Earnest Bovine


From:
Los Angeles CA USA
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2014 2:21 pm    
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Jim Robbins wrote:
If anyone is paying attention to nerdy stuff (ahem, I believe the proper spelling is with an "e", not to be nerdy about it) it's pedal steel players.

The modern spelling with "e" has always looked wrong to me and I refuse to use it. Kids nowadays!
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Jim Priebe

 

From:
Queensland, Australia - R.I.P.
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2014 3:20 pm    
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Yup! it's a treat. I have used the "minor" lever (1/2 drops the 3rds) for many years (on LKR) - also great for adding the A pedal to get a m6/9. I also use pedal 5 to 1/2 drop the 5ths so in conjunction with the lever I get a diminished easily - handy to quickly get a passing chord.
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Stephen Gambrell

 

From:
Over there
Post  Posted 7 Nov 2014 7:08 pm    
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b0b wrote:
For those who don't know Randy, I just want to point out that he is a master of jazz on the E9th. I've never heard anyone else pull so many rich jazz chords out of the copedent. In my mind, his recommendation of this new lever is carries a lot of weight.

Thanks for bringing this new idea Idea to the forum, Randy.


You ain't kiddin', b0b! Randy is scary good on E9. I was, uh, fortunate enough, to get to play guitar behind Randy (Great classical guitarist, too), and watch him closely. He has ten fingers, two feet, and too many good ideas. Back when I was playing, there were only two guys who really made me nervous about my ability as a guitar player. Doug Jernigan (he wasn't taking chances. He brought Gary Marks) and Randy Beavers. Randy and Russ Hicks were going at it pretty good. Wayne Smith was bustin' the bass, and I don't remember if Jerry Reece or Hit-Man Hartley was hittin' the drums (Both of 'em good drummers)
Randy called "C# blues." I said, "Why, Randy?" (Curious nature) And Randy says, "sounds better than Db blues." OOO, KAAY, Randy. You want cute, I got cute. I kicked my O/D pedal, and--we were not playing a 12-bar, I-IV-V blues. Hicks fell over (Y'all know how he is), Wayne was laughing, and I ain't hit the right note yet.

I thrive on public humiliation.
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Billy Carr

 

From:
Seminary, Mississippi USA
Post  Posted 8 Nov 2014 5:07 am     what's this?
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I've been reading through this topic and it has been interesting. I was thinking about this 6 & 9 change recently but hadn't added the 9th string with the 6th string. While not trying get off topic to much, I've been using a C6th type voicing on E9th. I've often wondered what this position is, so here it goes. I only lower my #6 G# to a G. Strings 6, 8 & 10 are used. Lowering the 10th string B to Bb, 8th string E note is used and then the G# to A note is used via the 2nd pedal. Backing up a whole step( or 2 frets ) or going from a 1 to 5 chord. I played C6th a number of years and that helps out when looking for C6th on the E9th. But anyway, I'm curious as to what the chord I explained is actually called. I can hear a steel in a song and can play it most of the time. The info about different chords, I can't usually tell what notes make up certain chords. I like to use the 3 & 4 set up because it forces me to find different ways to play things. Thanks for an answer.
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Gary Peaslee


From:
Hideaway, TX USA
Post  Posted 9 Nov 2014 9:47 pm    
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Hey Randy - you revealed most of your current setup in this thread but not all of it. Would you mind posting your complete current E9 setup? Also are you still splitting string 10 with the A pedal? If so, can you post a couple of cool things you can do with that split? Thanks, Randy.
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FRANK MARIANO

 

From:
PENSACOLA FL
Post  Posted 19 Nov 2014 2:17 pm     That 9th string and 6 string lower lever or pedal
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I'm thinking of putting this change on pedal 0 (Franklin). Any advice on which string to do first so I get the right travel and tension?
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Steve Mueller

 

From:
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Post  Posted 3 Jan 2015 9:07 pm    
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Just found this thread about the minor7flat5 pedal by Randy Beavers. He's such a great E9 jazz player with rich chord work. I don't really have a way to get that change on my guitar because it gets in the way of other changes. I do have the 5th string B to C change on pedal 3 in place of the standard 4th and 5th strings up a half step(my LKR raises the 4th a step and I use this with pedal 1 to get the normal 3rd pedal change). So, an option for me as I thought about this is to use my pedals 2 and 3 using strings 7, 6, 5 and 4 to get an F#7flat5 in the open postion.
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Randy Beavers


From:
Lebanon,TN 37090
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2015 6:20 am    
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I thought I'd revive this thread I started this time last year. Have any of you tried it, and what have you come up with? I'm still finding new things with this change.

For the ones who like to hear the tuning "sweetened", like me, I tune the 9th string lower different with this pedal than when I lower it along with the 2nd string. On this pedal I tune it against the 7th string, where as on the other I tune it against the 6th. For years I've stayed away from the 7th string when I had the 9th lowered because it was flat to that combination.

Try this combination with this lever, play strings 9, 7, 5, 4, and 3 raised. All stacked 4th intervals. For the players that use quartal harmony chords it's in tune like this. Then you can lower the 4th string, or play the 3rd string not raised to get the major 7th on top depending on your position. There's more than one deffinition for this approach. It's also just a 6/9 chord with various lead notes on top. Bottom line, it's very useful!
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Bo Borland


From:
South Jersey -
Post  Posted 20 Oct 2015 10:21 am    
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Randy , with a full set of 4 pedals & 5 levers where would I put this change to try it out

E changes are on my Right knee

LKL raise 1 -2 AND 7
lkl lowers 2 & 9
lkv lowers 5 & 10
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Randy Beavers


From:
Lebanon,TN 37090
Post  Posted 22 Oct 2015 2:35 am    
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Bo, it's hard to say what to give up. If it were me I'd put it where you are raising 1, 2, and 7. However that may be something you're not willing to part with.
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Dale Rottacker


From:
Tacoma Washington, USA
Post  Posted 11 Jul 2019 11:39 am    
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This is a great post and a change I’m trying to figure out where exactly to put... Randy, you have this on RKL, which is where I’m lowering my E’s... I’m guessing I could leave me E’s lowered on RKL and put your change on LKR and have the same thing you have?... If you use it with E’s lowered B’s lowered which I do on my 0 pedal, and with the A pedal?.... Unless I’m missing something?
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Scott Swartz

 

From:
St. Louis, MO
Post  Posted 29 Apr 2020 5:10 pm    
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I wanted to bump this thread because like everyone I have had lots of time to practice lately. I tried this a bit years ago but after re-adding it and really digging into it lately the amount of cool chords and scale runs on the lower strings of the E9 are awesome. I have always lowered both G#s to G on pedal zero and have done some things with the 9th string D against that, but adding the lowering the D to C# creating the tritone and all its possibilities adds much more.

In addition to the A9 it creates a nice in tune fully diminished when combined with the B-A#, more in tune to my ear than the ones with F lever or AB+E+X.

If you have G#s to G on a pedal or lever its easy to add the pull rod to try it.

Thanks Randy!
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Richard Alderson


From:
Illinois, USA
Post  Posted 29 Apr 2020 5:38 pm    
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Johnny Baldwin wrote:
The "Franklin Pedal", now the "Beaver Pedal". What'll they think of next. Doh!


The Beavers Lever ?
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Randy Beavers


From:
Lebanon,TN 37090
Post  Posted 30 Apr 2020 2:00 pm    
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Didn’t realize this thread had been resurrected. 🤠
Yes Dale that would be a good place to put it. I like lowering my E’s along with it. There’s a version of “Moonglow” in a fakebook that calls for a 9th chord with a flat 5 but the flat 5 is in the middle of the chord by lowering those E’s. Really a cool sounding chord and very easy to do with this change. Start with lowering 6 and 9 the half and playing strings 5, 6, 8, and 9 then lower the E’s for the flat 5. You can also add in the 7th string for the 13th also in the middle of the chord.
There’s a lot of different combinations that I use that comes from that change.
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Paul Pearson

 

From:
Alabama, USA
Post  Posted 1 May 2020 6:46 am     New lever
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Randy if you get some time how about give us some ideas how you use this lever I have it on the fourth pedal next to my A pedal on Day setup been toying around with it some I like it just need a little more information
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Rick Schmidt


From:
Prescott AZ, USA
Post  Posted 1 May 2020 4:25 pm    
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I so wish I could add that, but unfortunately I don’t have anywhere to put it.

FWIW, here’s some E9 tab I did awhile back of jazz harmony guru Barry Harris’s “6 Diminished Scale”concept... if You look at the bottom example, where it says E Minor, you’ll notice that starting from the first example is an Emin6 1rst inversion. Some of us know that also can function as an A9...and a C#min7b5 (half diminished).
If you play every other chord, you’ll get all 4 inversions of those chords, while the ones you’re skipping over are the inversions for a diminished 7 chord.

But yes Randy’s change really sounds interesting! Cool

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John Goux

 

From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 1 May 2020 4:47 pm    
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Wow, I just realized I have a Minor 2-5-1 without moving the bar. Lots of good notes here.

I lower G#s to G on a Left knee lever. Like most, I lower String 9 D to C# on a Right knee along with St 2.

C#min7b5 to F#7 to Bmin7

C#min7b5 (lower 6+3, lower 9) play (10) 9 8 6 5 4 3
F#7 (Lower 5+10 Vert) Play 8 7 5 4 1
Bmin7. (Raise 3+6, B pedal) Play 10 9 7 6 5 3 1

Also on the F#7 can be F#9 if you play strings 3+6, but add you B pedal and you get F#7#9, very appropriate for a minor 2-5-1. The Hendrix chord.

I like finding the missing chords in my E9 brain.
Thanks Randy! And all who revisited this excellent discussion.
John
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Dale Rottacker


From:
Tacoma Washington, USA
Post  Posted 2 May 2020 9:56 am    
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Randy Beavers wrote:
Didn’t realize this thread had been resurrected. 🤠
Yes Dale that would be a good place to put it. I like lowering my E’s along with it. There’s a version of “Moonglow” in a fakebook that calls for a 9th chord with a flat 5 but the flat 5 is in the middle of the chord by lowering those E’s. Really a cool sounding chord and very easy to do with this change. Start with lowering 6 and 9 the half and playing strings 5, 6, 8, and 9 then lower the E’s for the flat 5. You can also add in the 7th string for the 13th also in the middle of the chord.
There’s a lot of different combinations that I use that comes from that change.


Its a good thread Randy, its a really cool change... Not sure if I used it on this, but Wayne's Rittenberry had it on here when I got, though I did reposition a few things to fit me... I have the 96 half lower, the 9 half raise and a 7 whole raise 9 half lower and 10 whole lower...

Here's my Moonglow, but don't remember if I used the flat 5 thing or not... I am NOT well versed at all on theory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bNi3RQyh_0
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Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune
*2014 #1 Prototype Rittenberry Prestige 9x8
*2018 Purple/Black MSA S-10 Legend XL Signature 5x7
*2016 Red/Black MSA D-10 Legend XL Signature 9x6
*1990 Jim Lindsey Special, Quad Original Bill Lawrence 705 PUP’s, 8x8 Gary Hogue Clone
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*Sho-Bud Maverick 3x1/ *Fender 400
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Randy Beavers


From:
Lebanon,TN 37090
Post  Posted 2 May 2020 12:21 pm    
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I’ll put something together and post at a later date. I tried to post something but it’s not working at the moment.
I
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Larry Behm


From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
Post  Posted 2 May 2020 4:40 pm    
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Randy could you slide back one fret and raise E and pedal B. You can release pedal B and or E lever when you choose to, would take the place of levers to lower.
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Randy Beavers


From:
Lebanon,TN 37090
Post  Posted 4 May 2020 12:22 pm    
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Hi Larry, you can do that but that’s only one example and you’d still need to raise string 5 half by half pedaling or splitting the raise with the B’s lowered. You can get tangled up and out of position real quick where this lever is very natural and lays in positions we use on the C6 tuning. Try to think of it as how you use the 6th pedal on your C6 neck. Same position down a 4th for a A9th, or C# minor 7 flat 5. Another example that mirrors how we play the augmented 11th on the C neck. First fret lower 6 and 9 a half along with 4 and 8. Play strings 4, 5, 6, and 9 for the E augmented 11, which is also a B flat 9 with a flat 5. Both of those are in the same position as we do them on the C neck.

There’s always another way to get the same notes but this way let’s me think just the way I do on the C neck.
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Mark McCornack


From:
California, USA
Post  Posted 7 May 2020 3:37 pm    
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Randy.....I am SO GLAD this post re-surfaced. I missed it first time around 5 years ago.
I bought a new guitar with a Zero pedal about a year ago, and just never could cozy up to the “stock” configuration. I just re-rodded it to put your change in and I can see where it will be quite useful to me. Something new to play with! Thanks for the tip (as well as your inspirational playing! ). ..Mark Very Happy
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