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Author Topic:  Legrande III pedal length??
Terry Sneed


From:
Arkansas,
Post  Posted 9 Sep 2014 6:41 pm    
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I have 3" from up against the pedal rod collar to end of pedal. Is this the standard length on Legrande IIIs? I have 4" from against the pedal rod collar to end of pedal on my Mullen. I like the 4" a lot better. Can you order longer pedals for Legrande III?

terry
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Ken Pippus


From:
Lake Oswego, OR
Post  Posted 9 Sep 2014 8:57 pm    
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I don't have an answer to your question, but you're right about the difference. I'm still trying to figure out how to quit kicking heck out of the pedal rods on my LG II.
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jay thompson


From:
east peoria, il USA
Post  Posted 10 Sep 2014 5:48 am     Legrande III pedal length??
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Terry,
Think leverage. Does your "LL III" have raise helper springs? NO. Have the shorter pedal? YES, all LeGrands, except perhaps the very early ones, have the same size pedal. Still have a reasonable soft pedal? YES. Now ask your question, Why does my Mullen G2 have an inch longer distance between the pedal rod connection and the end of the pedal, leverage. Have you ever heard of any of the great pickers complain about the short LeGrande pedals? I didn't think so.
Regards, Jay Thompson
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Ron Pruter


From:
Arizona, USA
Post  Posted 10 Sep 2014 1:30 pm    
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My LeGrande pedals are way too short. Posted this question years ago. You said 3". I think it's more like 2.75".Rods are connected about in the middle of the pedal. Williams peds are similar looking
and about 1/2 inch longer and he'll sell them for about $25. Tried to get Justice peds but Fred won't sell'em. RP
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Ken Pippus


From:
Lake Oswego, OR
Post  Posted 10 Sep 2014 1:45 pm    
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Jay, thanks for helpfully pointing out that none of us is named Emmons. That would not have occurred to me.

As Ron has suggested, the issue with Emmons pedals, and for Ron,Terry, and I, not named Emmons, it does remain an issue, is that the pedal rods attach much further from the pedal bar than on any other make or model of guitar I've played. (It looks like it might be the same on the Derby.) I am trying to play the great Emmons guitar I own enough that I get used to it, but in the interim, the front of my foot is catching on the pedal rod enough that it's hard for me to play the guitar in tune.

And your leverage argument is spurious. Lengthening the lever arm at the pedal is balanced out by the length of the throw at the top end of the rod. Mechanical advantage is a wonderful thing, but will not give you something for nothing. The pedal action on my LG is quite a bit stiffer than my Mullen, which is almost absurdly easy.

I suspect that time and suffering will fix the problem, but Mr. Pruter's suggestion of longer pedals is not far off the mark, and I hadn't thought of it.


Last edited by Ken Pippus on 10 Sep 2014 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Terry Sneed


From:
Arkansas,
Post  Posted 10 Sep 2014 2:13 pm     pedals
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Thanks guys.

terry
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jay thompson


From:
east peoria, il USA
Post  Posted 10 Sep 2014 2:51 pm     Legrande III pedal length??
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Ken,
I did notice you forgot to mention the raise helper springs on your G2. Also the pedal rod attaches +- 2 inches from the pedal axle on the LeGrande. When the pull rods are properly adjusted, the pedals are far from being stiff.
Regards, Jay Thompson
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Oakdale, California
Post  Posted 10 Sep 2014 3:42 pm    
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Quote:
Jay, thanks for helpfully pointing out that none of us is named Emmons. That would not have occurred to me.


If my name isn't Emmons, I need to have new business cards made. Laughing
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Fred Rushing


From:
Odin, IL, USA
Post  Posted 10 Sep 2014 7:44 pm     Lgiii
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Terry. Your LGIII has the counterforce rod. That will make the pulls abit firmer than a LGII. Also, if the counterforce is not adjusted properly, the pulls could become ALOT firmer than they should be.

I have owned both and with the counterforce, adjusted properly it will pull slightly firmer than a LGII. That has been my experience.

Fred
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post  Posted 11 Sep 2014 7:26 am    
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When I got my 1st Williams, my toe kept hitting the pedal rod. I measured the distance from the pedal rod to the pedal bar and it was quite a bit greater than on the Sho~Bud I was playing. I sent the pedals to Bill and he redrilled the hole for the pedal rod and re-positioned the mounting ball closer to the pedal bar. Some guitars come with two holes on the pedal so you have a choice of positions. It also helps when balancing the pulls.
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Richard Sinkler


From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Oakdale, California
Post  Posted 11 Sep 2014 7:29 am    
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In 43 years, I never even thought about the different pedal lengths. I wonder if I had issues with them over the years. I think I just assumed there was a "standard" , and all guitars were the same. Interesting thread.
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Ron Pruter


From:
Arizona, USA
Post  Posted 11 Sep 2014 2:09 pm    
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I did say 2.75" toe room, but I just remeasured. Actually 2 and 5/8".Even shorter than I thought.RP
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 11 Sep 2014 2:14 pm    
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Simply, and all things being equal upstairs under the deck, if you increase the distance between the pedal rod connection point and the end of the pedal (either by moving the rod nearer the bar or by lengthening the pedal) you will increase the mechanical advantage and obtain an easier, but longer, pedal action. It's a trade-off. My old Sho-Bud copy has 3" of space between end and rod, which is ok, but the one I'm building will have 3¼" to give myself a treat. 2.75 on Ron Pruter's LeGrande sounds a bit tight, so his preference for something about ½" longer rings true.

[just seen Ron's update]
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Ken Pippus


From:
Lake Oswego, OR
Post  Posted 11 Sep 2014 2:37 pm    
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Thought I should put some numerical perspective on this discussion. The first number is from center of pedal axle to the center of the connector. Second is center of axle to end of pedal, in inches:

Mullen 1-1/4 5-1/4"
Emmons 2-1/4 5
Ritt 1-1/2" 5
GFI 1-1/4 5-1/4
Zum 1-3/8 5-1/8

Measured with a rollup tape, sometimes while standing on the head, so the tolerances are dubious, but I don't think affect the trend.

Again, the absolute distance from axle to connector means nada, the mechanical advantage can be adjusted by changing the lever arm length attached to the crossrod. None of the original discussion was about pedal stiffness, it's about the fact that the Emmons has most of an inch less pedal distal to the connector than several current production guitars. Again, I suspect this is an issue only if you've gotten used to one setup, and aren't smart enough to accommodate the new one quickly, like I aren't!
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Terry Sneed


From:
Arkansas,
Post  Posted 11 Sep 2014 4:34 pm     pedals
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Ken wrote>

Quote:
None of the original discussion was about pedal stiffness, it's about the fact that the Emmons has most of an inch less pedal distal to the connector than several current production guitars.


Correct, stiffness, is not the problem with this guitar, the pedals are fairly easy to depress. It's the short distance from the pedal rod to the end of pedal. Which mine measures exactly 3". All I was asking was, can you buy longer pedals for a LL III? Didn't mean to sound like I was complaining. Confused

BTW- This ain't my first Emmons guitar it's my 4th. I've had a 78 push pull, an 80 shorty, a 90s Legrande II, and this III. I don't remember having this problem with the other Emmons I owned. If I ain't careful, I'll flip up the little retainer arm that holds the rod on the pedal, or either hit the rod with my toe moving to pedal C. I think maybe I need a special pair of shoes. Maybe a pair with extra short toe room. Smile

terry
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Ken Pippus


From:
Lake Oswego, OR
Post  Posted 11 Sep 2014 4:51 pm    
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Maybe if I had my toes amputated?
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Terry Sneed


From:
Arkansas,
Post  Posted 11 Sep 2014 6:14 pm     pedals
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Quote:
Maybe if I had my toes amputated?


Now that might work. But just on the left foot, then I'd have one good foot to walk on. Smile

terry
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Ken Pippus


From:
Lake Oswego, OR
Post  Posted 11 Sep 2014 9:55 pm    
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One could be perfectly qualified to play the songs of Gordon Lightfoot.
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post  Posted 12 Sep 2014 6:45 am    
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Don't play in cowboy boots!
Those cockroach stompers weren't built for playing pedal steel. Rolling Eyes
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Ken Pippus


From:
Lake Oswego, OR
Post  Posted 12 Sep 2014 9:12 am    
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Erv, I grew up in them, but do not currently own cockroach kickers.
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post  Posted 12 Sep 2014 9:14 am    
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Ken,
I like to wear boots also, but not when playing pedal steel.
I prefer moccasins. Very Happy
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Ken Pippus


From:
Lake Oswego, OR
Post  Posted 12 Sep 2014 9:19 am    
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I can play every guitar listed without a "foot headache" except the LG, and in nearly any pair of shoes I own. This is a peculiarity of the pedal design, and I'm pleasantly surprised to find I'm not the only bonehead with the problem!
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chuck lemasters


From:
Jacksonburg, WV
Post  Posted 12 Sep 2014 11:51 am    
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I had to play the pedals on my Emmons with my toes, rather than the ball of my foot. It was uncomfortable and I never got used to it. I assumed I was the only guy who ever had this problem.
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Philip Osborne


From:
United Kingdom
Post  Posted 28 Jan 2018 3:56 am     LeGrande pedal length
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Hi,

I know this topic is 4 years old, but I read with interest the views of various members who considered that the pedal length of Emmons LeGrande steels is way too short. I bought a LeGrande 111 recently, and completely agree that the pedals are at least 1" too short. Because of the lack of 'toe room' it is very easy to keep hitting the pedal connector with your toe, making it very awkward to play. I have done an experiment on my steel this morning, and temporarily lengthened A & B pedals by 1 1/8"and it has completely eliminated the problem, and also made the pedals much easier to push, due to the improved leverage. To my surprise the increased 'throw' isn't noticeable at all. This modification has transformed the 'playing experience' for me, all I have to do now is decide on the best way to lengthen all the pedals to give a mechanically sound result, and still look nice. I will post the results on this forum when the job is completed.
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Bob Hamilton


From:
California Central Coast
Post  Posted 28 Jan 2018 9:14 am     Emmons pedals
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chuck lemasters wrote:
I had to play the pedals on my Emmons with my toes, rather than the ball of my foot. It was uncomfortable and I never got used to it. I assumed I was the only guy who ever had this problem.


Hey fellas, I had the same situation with not being able to reach the ball of my pedal foot and this is what I came up with. About twenty dollars in parts and a little shop work, but it gained me enough pedal to get the job done.
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