Keyless tuners

Joe Krumel · From: Hermitage, Tn.

Any one else sorry they bought into the keyless idea? I wont mention the brand of guitar because the thing plays and sounds great. just miss the ease of changing strings on the traditional key head.

Steve English · From: Baja, Arizona

Joe,

Can you elaborate on the process? I've always wanted to own a keyless guitar, but have zero experience with them.

I've found some of them (Williams, Cline) quite attractive.
_________________
Always remember you're unique..... Just like everyone else

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I am also curious. I've never owned or played a keyless, but like the concept. Is the string changing issue your only concern?
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Joe Krumel · From: Hermitage, Tn.

sure steve. my keyless uses a simple phillips screwdriver and knurled knob to raise or lower tuning.things are just too tight in there to easily loop string on the screw. I now just pull the string just under one side of the screw head instead of wrapping it around it once. one thing I like about keyless is that you never break any 3rd strings. The process isnt easy with my fat fingers.

Joe Krumel · From: Hermitage, Tn.

hi paul. yeah, the guitar is great in every way, but the string changing isnt my favorite. Ive owned the guitar for years, and just deal with it. I've owned sho-buds,bmi etc. with conventional keyheads and just prefer that I guess. I have to say though that this guitar stays in tune,sounds great,plays great,etc. Thats why I love it. except for the keyless.

Charles Kurck · From: Living in Arkansas but Heaven is home

I think Ron Bennettâ€™s cam action clamping system is a good idea.
It just needs the strings to exit on the top side of the guitar so they can be easily cut to length.

Steve English · From: Baja, Arizona

That is a work of art! Whoa!

I've read that the G# string requires lots of travel to tension it down, however on the Bennett it appears the D# adjusted out the most. Do you have to "bottom out" the adjustment on each string before attaching it to the cam? Is there any correlation between the string thickness and how much adjustment travel is needed?
_________________
Always remember you're unique..... Just like everyone else

Steve English · From: Baja, Arizona

a doodblee.... Embarassed

_________________
Always remember you're unique..... Just like everyone else

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Are you using a string pulling tool in your right hand to pull the string tight at the same time that you are tightening the screw with your left hand?
That's how I do it on my Sierra.
That usually makes it easy to get the string up to the same pitch as the next lower pitched string, then you tune it up to pitch with the knurled tuner from there.
If it were me, I would replace the Phillips head screws with Allen heads, because you can leave an Allen wrench in the Allen head and it will not fall out while you are preparing to change and tighten the string.

Here's is the GFI instruction sheet. They don't mention using a pulling tool, but it looks like a pretty nice Keyless system.
http://www.gfimusicalproducts.com/Tables/Keyless%20Instructions.htm

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

I have a Williams Keyless S-10. It's the only keyless guitar I've owned. I find string-changing to be quick and easy.

I'm glad I bought the guitar.

_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande

There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.

Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat

Will Cowell · From: Cambridgeshire, UK

I have two keyless steels - the time to change a string on each is much less than on a conventional guitar. The guitar is lighter, has less body drop, and returns to pitch truer. No contest.
_________________
Williams 700 series keyless U12,
Sierra keyless U14, Eezzee-Slide & BJS bars
Moth-eaten old Marshall 150 combo
Roland Cube 80XL, Peterson Strobo+HD,
EarthQuaker Despatch Master for reverb / delay

Sez Adamson · From: South Africa

I have a Williams S10 keyless. I love the instrument. Never breaks a string, and I don't change them that often. Stays in tune well. Sounds great. Small, compact, lightweight. Great for traveling. Has everything going for it.

Mike Vallandigham · From: Martinez, CA

Not all systems will be the same.

I have a newer Excel Keyless. In my case, I need a string puller, and 3 hands.

The problem is that when string tension is taken off of the changer finger, it pulls in to the cabinet with the return spring pressure. So, when you attach a new string to the changer finger (using a cap screw...the ball end goes up at the tuning key end) you have to pull enough on the string to get the changer finger to pull back to the neutral position. This usually means holding the finger back when trying to tighten the cap screw.

Also, you need to have the string pulled tight when you lock it with the cap screw, or else there's usually not enought tuning range to take that slack up along with the stretch in the string.

Anyway, for me, it's definately NOT easier than a regilar tuner set-up. But the bas-assery of the guitar and it's mechanics more than makes up for it.!

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Question for Will - why would a keyless have less cabinet drop?
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

I had a burnt orange Williams model 400 keyless. Maybe the ultra short body being a shorter piece of wood flexes less. I think mine also had a mid changer support.

Some quick measurements with my tuner yielded the following results for the high E string on E9th. When the string is taken up to F#, back to E (measure pitch1), down to Eb, back up to E (measure pitch2), the maximum hysteresis was 2.5 cents. Not that I care, cause it never bothered my playing but this is better than any other guitar I have owned.

Cabinet drop:

3 cents on high E string when P1 depressed
2 cents on high G# when P1 depressed
3 cents on low E when P1 depressed
3 cents on high G# when P3 depressed.

http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Williams/willy.html

Larry Allen · From: Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii

I have 3 Excels, all keyless. I love everything about them except for the restringing the 1-4 smaller gauges. I made a small tool that fits behind the Right legs and up against the body to help pull them tight, but the regular keyed tuners are easier on these strings. Also the keyless NEVER breaks a string and is deadly in tune compared my keyed guitars. Larry

_________________
Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side

Jim Bob Sedgwick · From: Clinton, Missouri USA

Fred Thompson · From: Zephyrhills, FL

I was set up beside Joe Wright at the Lakeland Steel Show last month. Before the show he changed 3 strings on his keyless, 3,5 and 6, I believe. We chatted while he was doing this and he did all three faster than I can change 2 on my keyed guitars. I firmly believe he's done this a few times before....
BTW, if I break a string on the intro of a song, I will usually have it changed, tuned, and play the ending of that song.
Joe has a plastic bar he uses to pull the string nearly to pitch before he tightens the screw.
I wouldn't mind having a keyless....
Fred
_________________
The difference between a musician and a savings bond is eventually the bond will mature and earn money.

James Marlowe · From: Florida, USA

I owned a GFI, keyless. A fine guitar, I might add and the keyless system nearly flawless, IMO. I liked it and found it very quick and easy to use. The thing I didn't like was the stationary nut, which I firmly believe was the cause of my chasing the tuning back and forth. A little lube on the nut probably would've done much good. Also, a hex-head bolt to wrap the string around would've been better than the 'Phillips' screw head. But that doesn't take from the system itself, which as I said, was good.
_________________
J.R. Marlowe
Life has many choices. Eternity has TWO. I choose Heaven.
Black '95 Zumsteel SD10, 4+5;Black Mullen RP SD10, 4+5
NRA Life member

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

For the faint at heart, dulcimers, harpsichords, pianos, and a whole bunch of other instruments are "keyless" by design. The excess garbage string length extending beyond a steel guitar's nut is a mechanical waste. The keyless guitars eliminate that waste and in the process, reduce mechanical effort involved in a guitar's setup. All the stubborn and defensive holdouts for the keyheads are just that....stubborn and defensive. If they actually had any training in mechanical design and/or engineering, they would soon agree that keyless is the only way to fly.
PRR

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

The shorter keyless body can reduce the guitar's weight, make it harder to fit a ton of extra knee levers and pedals under the guitar, reduce the stage footprint and make it easier to reach over and use one of the E9th knee levers on C6. I think guitar with keys are more balanced looking and a bit flashier on stage.

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

Flashier and more balanced than a KLINE?
PRR

John Billings · From: Ohio, USA

7 levers on my old Kline. Very comfortable to play.

Sonny Jenkins · From: Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx

I think those that have never owned, or played a keyless for any length of time, tend to not like them,,,,whereas, those who have owned and played Keyless (some models more than others, but generally most) have a difficult time accepting the unnecessary and inconvenient hardware sticking out there on the end. I liken it to pulling an empty utility trailer behind my car all the time. I guess I've owned every brand of keyless, except Anapeg, with Kline being by far my favorite. Just color me,,,"Keyless to the Core"!!!!

Georg Sørtun · From: Mandal, Agder, Norway

I have a GFI keyless, and like the tuning system a lot.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel	Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic