Ric model B and Fender champ lap steel amp?

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 17 Jun 2014 4:41 pm

A friend has asked my to suggest an amp for a classic Fender tube tone. I suggested 15 to 20 watts. She also want's the weight to be reasonable. I use the Fender Deluxe and Excelsior but they are fairly heavy. She has a 40's Ric model B and a 1957 Fender Champ.

Suggestions?

Lenny

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 17 Jun 2014 4:57 pm

Maybe a Princeton Reverb? 12 watts, I believe. Tube amps weigh more than solid state amps, so it's a trade off, tone vs. weight. A good sounding tube amp won't be lightweight.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 17 Jun 2014 6:10 pm

The Excelsior is way heavy for what you get... I'd recommend something with 2x6v6 and a 12". Silverface Deluxe Reverb would fit the bill. Talking about a grand there, reissue or vintage.

Jim Rossen · Post by **Jim Rossen** » 17 Jun 2014 6:36 pm

VHT Special 6 combo
Fender Pro Jr
Fender Blues Jr
VHT Special 12/20 combo
Allen Chihuahua

Jim

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 17 Jun 2014 6:39 pm

Yeah, an original Deluxe Reverb would do it. 22 watts, but they weigh 40 lbs. The Princeton weighs 31 lbs. Either way, don't buy a reissue. Go for the real thing. Originals are easily repairable and they last forever with occasional servicing. I've played my 1967 Vibrolux Reverb on thousands of gigs, including last weekend. Still going strong.

Joe Burke · Post by **Joe Burke** » 17 Jun 2014 8:44 pm

I have a Model B and a Fender Blues Jr. I think they sound great together.

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 17 Jun 2014 9:04 pm

Joe Burke wrote:I have a Model B and a Fender Blues Jr. I think they sound great together.

Me too.

I also have a couple Pro Juniors, and they are also great sounding amps. Simple as can be with one volume control and one tone control. Easy to dial in a good sound.

Then again, a Bakelite will sound good through just about anything.

Patrick Harison · Post by **Patrick Harison** » 17 Jun 2014 10:08 pm

I know everyone in the steel world is always preaching the virtue of big speakered high power amps... But... I've been enjoying playing my B6 through a really tiny "Champion 600" Re-issue at a whopping 5 watts. That being said, it has been modded a little bit. A switch has been added to bypass the blackface tone circuit and runs it straight into the preamp for a tweed configuration as well as a speaker replacement. That being said, I wouldn't play a bar gig with it as it distorts at a stage volume. BUT, for that really old school raw hawaiian tone at home, it's pretty sweet. Also, +1 for blues junior and pro junior. Although, I almost think the pro junior has a sweeter tone to it. The stock blues junior has some well known issues and takes some tinkering to get a sweet steel tone. Of course, a vintage deluxe reverb or better is an ideal situation... But then you're getting into heavy and expensive. But maybe your friend is rich and has a strong back or able bodied sherpa?

Joe Snow · Post by **Joe Snow** » 18 Jun 2014 5:23 am

A 57 champ is classic fender tube tone. I have performed for years (with lap steel)using a 58 champ with an external 2x10 speaker cabinet. You can get plenty of volume for stage with or without break-up depending on the setting.

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 18 Jun 2014 6:23 am

The two questions left unanswered are:
1) how much does she want to spend?
2) how loud does she need to be?

A '57 Champ can be a great amp. If it's underpowered for her needs, try a Fender Blues Junior (15 watts into a 12 inch speaker), or a Princeton Reverb (15 watts into a 10 inch speaker), or a Deluxe Reverb (22 watts into a 12 inch speaker).

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 18 Jun 2014 8:12 am

After searching for decades.......I discovered quite by accident what a perfect match with tone to spare is my Fender Pro-Junior and my Ric Bakelites.

It's full bodied, light weight, and when miked it gives me everything I ever wanted/needed in an amp. It gives just a smidgen of 'over-drive' when cranked up and it sounds a lot like what JERRY BYRD's recordings used to reveal. This is a REAL amp and not a toy!

I found mine at the Dallas Show a few years ago and had it shipped to the Pacific Northwest and have never regretted it.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 18 Jun 2014 8:36 am

sounds like she already has what she needs!

ray..i like that recommendation. i wish the pro jr was a little cheaper, though.

oh...i guess the 57 champ is a steel, not an amp. sorry.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 18 Jun 2014 10:44 am

Brad, I think she would spend a reasonable amount (so what's reasonable?) she purchased and paid the going price for the Ric model B and Fender steel so I imaging she is prepared to pay the going price for the right amp. Problem is, she is in Washington state and I am in Mass so I can only make suggestions and that's why I posted this thread. She plays small to mid size situations and she mentioned they have a sound person but volume levels are very conservative.

I am passing this entire thread along to her so she gets a wide variety of opinions. Also making the assumption that weight is a factor although she plays out a small number of times a year I am sure she wants the tube tone heaven vibe at home. (who doesn't)

Thanks,

Lenny

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 18 Jun 2014 11:35 am

One more question to narrow the field a bit... a vintage amp or a modern amp? when you said "classic Fender tube tone" I was thinking, get a classic (vintage) Fender amp. Hence an original silverface Princeton Rev. or Deluxe Rev. Fender makes a lot of new, small tube amps, but I'm not sure if they sound as good as the old ones or are as reliable or easy to repair. And the prices of the new amps are sky high. Just my 2 cents.

Ron Whitfield · Post by **Ron Whitfield** » 18 Jun 2014 1:28 pm

http://www.google.com/#q=fender+scxd
One great little Fender amp that doesn't get any real mention around here is the SS/tube combo Super Champ XD, probably because it's not a larger stage gigging amp merely sporting a 10" speaker. But in smaller settings these can handle spectacularly well while getting a multitude of famous tones/styles, plus you can get the tubey juiciness by maxing the volume on the amp then increasing the volume from the guitar's side. Very flexible tone wise and they can get loud for under $200, probably the best smaller bang4buck amp going. The real trick on these is getting it re-cabbed and modded for a proper 12" replacement speaker, then it'll have some low end thump and cover nearly any need ever asked of it, and the cleans are classic Fender spectacular. Mine weighs in around 20 lbs. and you'll probably never need accessories, a real grab and go winner. It's deffinitely not your average dial-a-sound solid state/hybrid amp.

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · Post by **Jean-Sebastien Gauthier** » 18 Jun 2014 3:49 pm

She seems to already have the right combo, small low wattage amp sound very nice with lap steel.

I found a 40's Gibson BR9 amp for 300$ and use it all the time (practice, studio and gig) It sound great and respond very well. The only time I need more wattage is when I play with a drummer, for this situation I bought a Skip Simmon's amp, about 15 watts.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 18 Jun 2014 3:50 pm

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I think the tone my friend is after, especially with the Ric model B is like this youtube clip of me playing my Ric model B.

Firstly, I can't carry my Deluxe, 1965 Twin, Super Reverb, Vox AC-30 or AC15. However when you have a need for tube tone in a smaller package, a friend that works in a music store said I should check out the Mesa Transatlantic 15.

This amp is 5/15/25 watts and this is the amp I am using in this video. Very portable and I use the 15 watt setting with a reverb pedal. I am also using a Tone Tubby 12" speaker. I really don't like recommending gear to anyone but this setup is sweet and very portable and with a 10" speaker cab it would be very user friendy.

Let me know what you think of this tone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN2GQBOwZ14

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 18 Jun 2014 7:31 pm

Sounds good, Len. That beautiful bakelite Rick would sound great through any amp! That's any early one, eh? Just one knob.

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 19 Jun 2014 7:31 am

chris ivey wrote:i wish the pro jr was a little cheaper, though.

Not necessarily all that expensive if you shop around. FMIC has been building these since the mid 1990's, and there's a gazillion of them out there.

My first Pro Junior, a tweed, was $100.00 at a small neighborhood guitar store. Got it cheap because they said the speaker was blown. I cleaned the speaker jack, double checked the leads (one was loose), and it has sounded fine ever since.

My second Pro Junior, a real pretty dead-mint blonde with brown grill cloth ala 1961, was $150.00 at a Music Go Round.

I got my dead-mint black Blues Junior last summer for $220.00. Found it on the local Craigslist.

All were manufactured in the USA. As I understand it, production was moved to Mexico in 2001.

These are really great-sounding little amps. I actually prefer the Pro Junior due to its simplicity. They are also quite versatile, due to their speaker connection via a 1/4" jack, as opposed to being hardwired. As Joe alluded to above, I have run a stock 2-10 1966 Tremolux cabinet with a Pro Junior and it sounds fantastic for lap steel. As Ray says, they really match up well with a Bakelite.

Barbara Berg · Post by **Barbara Berg** » 19 Jun 2014 7:46 am

Thank you all for all your suggestions! I have learned so much on the SGF, and have met so many people that enhance my knowledge. Lenny, and Doug have been gems in all my lap steel questions. What a great family!

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 19 Jun 2014 8:18 am

jack...i'll take a $100 one!!

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 19 Jun 2014 9:12 am

My Tweed Tremolux was $100 too, but I think the statute of limitations may apply.

And yes, it had classic Fender tube tone.

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 20 Jun 2014 3:14 am

Doug:

My Ric model B was sold to me as a 1937 but may be older. It does sound good through any amp but the extra vibe is through a tube amp. I get lost in the sound when I am playing it.

You are correct about the price of old & new Fender amps. The values and what people are willing to pay dictaes the cost unless you find a closet classic at a good price.

As they say "Life is too short for bad tone"

Lenny

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 20 Jun 2014 1:12 pm

I get lost in the sound when I am playing it.

that's great, Len! that's what we're all looking for.