For Universal Players

Randy Pettit · From: North Texas USA

Trap Truly’s C6 chord chart over on the Tablature Forum got me to thinking about approaching “C6-type” chords on the E9/B6 universal tuning. My goal has always been to have a singular, “one big tuning” approach to this tuning, which I’ve played for many years. Borrowing Reece Anderson’s nomenclature, my approach to locating chords the E9 side is to find the “real world” or root fret for every key on the fretboard, e.g., “G” on the 3rd fret, “A” on the 5th fret and so on. From that root position, bar positions up/down the fretboard from that root position, plus various pedal/knee combos, produce other chord types (Gmin, G6, G9, Gdim, Gm7, Gmaj7, etc…).

My question to universal players is this: If you use this or a similar type of chord-finding system, do you attempt to maintain it when lowering the E’s into B6? For example, does your “real world” or root G position now change to the 8th fret (G6 chord), or does it remain at the 3rd fret? Again, I would like to have a consistent, one-big-tuning approach using all pedals and levers at any given time to play whatever chord I’m looking without having to change from an E9 thinking mode, to a B6 thinking mode. Am I nuts? (definitely!) I would appreciate any and all advice.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

I think it makes more sense to get comfortable with many different places to play that G chord. They are all just as "real" and you can play melodies at each position.
For example on E9, play a G chord at frets 0,1,3,5,6,8, or 10.

jeff reynolds · From: Jackson, Ms.

How interesting I should find this after last weeks GiG.
I have been playing with some guys and mostly use the E9th portion But wandered off in to unfamiliar territory last Sat. and played around in the B6th portion. what I seemed to find in the B6th was I could play more strings and the notes would work however some songs just dont feel right in the 6th tuning. I think of what the song is saying and where the 6 string guitar players are at before I choose the tuning to play in.

I do catch my self switching back and forth sometimes but thats probably due to being a beginner myself But it is fun to watch the guys in the Band Look over at me with that "WHAT ARE YOU DOING NOW Look" on their face.
I don't like thinking of the E9/B6 as two different places to be I like keeping it simple and calling it one common place. My philosophy is ... Learn what you got make the best of it and dont get in the other members way .. Id rather play one note that can be felt than to play 100 notes that you hear .
Hope this is good food for thought.

------------------
Dekley S12U 7X5 / Session 500, Gibson Flying V, ES335, Peavey Oddesy / Fender Quad Rev. , Twin Rev. & Deluxe Rev. W/ ProFex II
www.theearthangels.net

Sidney Malone · From: Buna, TX

Randy, I think your right on target with your thinking. When I studied with Reece on the Universal we seperated the tunings for the initial learning purposes of how to find the chords but the ultimate goal is to look at it as one tuning.

I'm sure if you've been playing the Universal tuning for a while you've seen how the two tunings are related which is what I think makes this tuning so great.

I try to not think of it as E9 or B6 but one tuning that gives me many chords and voiceing options depending on the song being played. I use the "real world" positions as anchors to know where I'm coming from or going to. If your not currently using the Nashville number system in your playing/thinking, I would strongly suggest you do so. I really helps to simlify the learning process.

I have found that the "mental" part of playing is probably at least 70% of the challenge, at least for me anyway.

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Randy,
Analyzing a tuning like E9/B6 is a tall order, especially if you don't have a good method. I'll suggest one:
-----
use only the open (no bar) position and analyze every possible note to be used as the root of any chord you can build from it
-----
1. Write down every open string note and every note in open positions that pedals or levers can provide. Depending on your setup, you may end up with the chromatic scale -- so you'll be analyzing all 12 note names.
2. Use each note as the root of a chord and anchor your thinking based on what string(s) the root is found on.
-----
realize that a chord's personality is shaped by the third, fifth, seventh, and also the 'even' scale tones -- 2nd/9th, 4th/11th, 6th/13th -- so analyze in that order. In the example I'll use we'll go beyond the usual analysis of chords based on the open E, A and B positions -- we'll start looking for chords in the key of F# and see what we find.
-----
3. Look for a third -- is it major or minor? e.g., you are looking for F# as root -- you may use the one on string 7 -- A is the minor third and A# is the major third. Your B pedal will give you the minor third and the B6 pedal that raises 5 and 6 a whole tone gives you the major third.
4. Same for the fifth -- look for natural, augmented, and diminished fifths. In the example, C# is the natural fifth (D the aug and C the dim). The pedal referred to in #3 gives both the major/natural 3rd and perfect/natural 5th, so that pedal gives you a major triad on strings 7,6,5.
5. How 'bout the seventh? DON'T STOP THERE -- keep building until you run out of bricks. The 4th string is E -- that's the b7 in F#, so now we can build an F# major chord and an F#7 (on 7,6,5,4). If you need a major 7th, you have to raise the E to F. That's a new chord. On strings 7,6,5,4 with P7 (or wherever you have that pedal change) AND THE F LEVER. This is not a position you will find in any Jeff Newman book. You may not even find it useful, but the analysis found a full MAJOR, DOM7, and MAJ7 chord, so far -- just from this one B6 pedal.
6. Other tones??? Add the third string, and it's F#9, since G# is the 2nd/9th tone of the scale.

NOTE: I'll bet you just found a set of chords you don't use.
Out of the open E position (root on 11,8,4) you can get a II7 family chord -- you can play the three note major triad, four note dom7, or five note dom9. There's also another root tone on the first string.
That's the kind of stuff you'll find with this methodology.

-----
write down all positions, organized by root tone, as you go.
-----
To summarize: Take every scale tone you can get open. Then start building chords that are as full and diverse as you can, based on that root. This will give you a set of pedals/levers/strings without the bar. Write down ones that work, organized by root tone. Once you're done, you may find it helpful to group chords by type rather than root -- e.g., where are all the minor chords. REMEMBER that if you start with 3 note chords (Major triad: 135 Minor triad 13b5 Dim triad 13b5b Aug triad: 135#), you can build other chords by adding 7ths (major or dominant/minor), 9ths, 11ths, 13ths, and by altering those notes as well (like 7b9 for example). You will end up with families of chords based on those triads and can think about similarities and differences that way.

Some chords, particularly those that include 5 or more notes, are often voiced for three notes by leaving out notes the band will play (the tonic may be played by the bass and the 5th by the guitar, for example). So you can play some more complex chords without having all notes.

There are a million variations, but this gives you a good basis to analyze the chords found in a tuning. Hope this helps.

I think of the E9/B6 tuning as a single set of possibilities and combinations. I have never played 10-string E9 or C6, so I don't suffer from the bias of thinking about those tunings as separate entities. They do very different things, so I find there's a lot that's complementary. I can get a diminished chord the B6 way (Eb lever, plus pedals 5 and 6) or the E9 way (F lever, etc.) -- I also realized early on that THEY'RE THE SAME. There are many equivalences -- like the B pedal and the C6 lever that raises A to Bb -- that are there for the universal player to use.

Another equivalence I use a lot is to go back and forth between the 6th chord position you get with your Eb lever and the one 2 frets up with the A+B pedals. If you think of A+B as E9 (I don't but some do) and the Eb lever as B6, this can serve as kind of a 'gateway' from E9 to B6.

I could write another 10 pages or more on this topic. EMail me if you want to discuss further.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 15 August 2002 at 08:01 AM.]

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Hi Randy,
Yes!... think of your S12U as a Chord Inversion Machine.
FWIW... When it's all on one neck, it's all at your fingertips at any given time!

I love chord charts like Trap Trulys, and Neil Flanz has an excellent C6th chord book available also. There are E9th chord charts available too.

When using these charts, I find I typically extrapolate what I'm interested in at the moment, and go back for more later. Otherwise they can be a bit overwhelming.

Those types of charts are great for quickly finding what pedal/lever combos you need, to get what you want, and get you right back to jamming!

Keeping with the idea you mention in the last paragraph of your post:

Yes, it is not inconceivable to think that you will be able to use all pedals and levers at any given time to play whatever chord you're looking for without having to change from an E9 thinking mode, to a B6 thinking mode.

As an excersize idea to get you started on the road to the One Big Tuning theory, you could learn a song that you like using various chord forms from E9th pedal/lever chord charts, and then learn the same song using various chord forms from B6th pedal/lever charts.

Then play the song using combos of both, and substitute variations/inversions, mix and match, ect.

This excersize worked good for me using the song San Antone Rose (Jeff Newman has a good rhythm track for it on his Star Tracks tape).

You mentioned thinking of the 3rd fret G with no pedals/levers as a root in E9th, with several inversions being related up or down the neck using different pedal/lever/grip combos.

In time I think you will find several E9/B6th/1-Big-Tuning "Roots" that you can play off of, that lie all over the neck, with inversions stemming from each.

There are several ways to "skin the cat" as they say...
Try to find a learning method that works for you (theory/charts/live or video lessons/tab/ear ect...), and keep building on your existing knowledge.

Keep Steelin'!
~pete

A quick example:
Progression: G-G7-C-Cmin-G-D7-G
G = 3rd fret open G, ala E9th.
G7 = 2 frets back with the B to Bb lower.
C = same fret (fret 1) with the E to Eb lower (this is basically played as an open C6th chord, rake strings 9-5).
Cmin = same fret and grip/rake with pedal 6 (keeping the E to Eb enguaged).
G = Slide back up to fret three, (original E9th style open G grip).
D7 = stay at fret 3, E to Eb + B pedal.
G = release pedal/lever to open G root grip again.

The C and Cmin are basically B6th style grips.
The B pedal turns any open 6th style chord (D6 on fret 3 with E to Eb enguaged) into a 7th.

One big tuning!

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 15 August 2002 at 04:15 PM.]

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

I play U-12. And what I've found is that it
can become difficult to simply quit your E9
mind set [or B6] and jump from one to the other...."just like that".....although I do it,
and get some good results.

But sometimes the song is moving so fast, that it can become confusing, especially when trying to ad-lib.

I mean the first usual move is to think the key that song is in on any fret [with pedals A&B down], and drop back 2 frets and engage the E-D# lever.
This at least gets you into the 6th mode.

I usually wind up, on a faster song, to simply play around this position. Single note runs, and 2-note intervals [2 strings
side by side, or 1, or 2, or 3, sometimes 4
(octave) apart].

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 16 August 2002 at 02:58 AM.]

Chip Fossa · From: Monson, MA, USA (deceased)

I actually missed my point. I meant to
explain that...one has to know the real difference between the 2 tunings. So one has to jump from say the usual, comfortable,
E9 to the the more exacberated, and infinitely 6th mental-tallity. Just because you engage a lever that takes you to more of a jazz position, the point is lost if you do not use it to it's ultimate end.

When I had a D-10, I used to play songs on the C6th neck, but.......they didn't sound any different than if I had been playing them on the E9. I don't know. Help me here.

There are great steelers who can make the C6 sound like E9, and steelers who can make E9 sound like C6. Sometimes it is real hard to tell what tuning is going on.

OK. You're right. I'm cornfused.

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 15 August 2002 at 07:19 PM.]

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

quote:
There are great steelers who can make the C6 sound like E9, and steelers who can make E9 sound like C6. Sometimes it is real hard to tell what tuning is going on

I think this is the point where it ceases being positions and pedals and levers and becomes MUSIC. The tuning is just a vehicle to produce music.

I agree with you. I've seen Paul Franklin fool me several times playing a solo on C6 that sounds like E9 or vice versa. At that point, it becomes the music.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Chip writes:
"...one has to know the real difference between the 2 tunings. So one has to jump from say the usual, comfortable,
E9 to the the more exacberated, and infinitely 6th mental-tallity."

I think that somehow, the mindset that C6th is a hard tuning to learn and play, has embedded itself in a multitude of players.

This has caused a multitude of players to use the back neck as an eternal armrest.
Or never touch anything to the right of the C pedal.

I think nothing is further from the truth.
Especially for S12U players.

If you need a boost of confidence, remeber this... IF TOY CALDWELL CAN PLAY C6TH...
Well... You get the picture.

In our case it's B6th, which makes the relationships to E9th even easier.

The thing that opened my mind to the 1:1 ratio between E9th chord forms and their B6th analogs was the Jeff Newman course "B6th Universal - Book 1"
In which he studies San Antone Rose in B6th.
"Oh Lonesome Me" is another example of a tune you could use as a tool to learn the E9th:B6th relationship.
I say this because you can play a pretty jammin version of both of these songs on E9th. But they are swing songs that jam just as well if not better on B6th.

It helps to understand how chord progression theory applies to the pedals and levers.
And this is why I reccomend learning a song in both E9th and B6th, and see for your self the relationships.
Wether you play a song in E9th or B6th, the chord progression of the song is the same.

Concerning single note soloing in B6th...
I bought all of Buddy Emmons Swing Series courses that come with tab and excellent rhythm tracks. The single note solos that Buddy has tabbed out are predominatly executed with little to no pedal/lever usage.

Plenty of bar movement though!

Jeff Newman has a video called "C6th and Swingin'!" which is an excellent study of chord forms and single note soloing patterns.
I think he has a more basic C6th course also.
It all applies directly to B6th.

Herby Wallace has countless songs tabbed out for C6th, which all translate to B6th as well.

I like Jim Cohens method the best though (mainly because I don't have much of an attention span for tab or music theory).
Listen to a chord progression you want to solo over. Hum a single note solo that you want to play. Then hunt down the best way, or multiple ways to play it (up and down the neck). Then add it to your vocabulary of soloing patterns.

If you're like me you'll have to play it over and over literally thousands of times to get it smooth.

So yes, there's a bit more to it than lowering you E's, so dive in!

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 16 August 2002 at 09:58 AM.]

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: