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Author Topic:  E13 material
Alex Cattaneo


From:
Quebec, Canada
Post  Posted 23 Sep 2011 1:34 pm    
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Hi folks,

I want to learn to play werstern Swing on the E13 neck and I don't know where to start. I'm looking for tabs, songs, exercices, audio recordings, anything to get me going with this tuning.

Thanks!
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Ron Whitfield


From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
Post  Posted 23 Sep 2011 2:26 pm     Welcome aboard!
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Dang Alex, with a stash of steels like you have, I'd say you're started.
But you may be asking for more than you wish, you have reached the motherload of answers.
Should be fun!
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 23 Sep 2011 2:36 pm    
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Noel Boggs' "Little Coquette" is about the best place to start on E13 (if you're using Noel's version of E13). It is a fairly easy tune to play and you'll start to recognize the sound of the tuning.

One of the most common moves in this tuning, where the top 3 strings are E C# and G#, is a forward slant like this:

Tab:

E________14_____
C#_______13_____
G#_______12_____


This gives you the 9th chord, in this case E9. Noel uses that in Coquette in the bridge, over the II7 chord, in this case Eb9, so it would be one fret lower than the tab.
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Alex Cattaneo


From:
Quebec, Canada
Post  Posted 23 Sep 2011 2:57 pm    
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@Ron: Believe me, owning and playing are two very different things! I just feel silly having this double neck gtr and using only one of them!

@Mike: Yep, Little Coquette got my ear when I was looking for something E13. Do you have any other suggestions of Boggs E13 material? Time to make another playlist and get that sound in my ear once and for all.

BTW, how about Kayton Roberts? Love this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZspnXtoT7M
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 23 Sep 2011 3:06 pm    
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Check out this thread:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=188472

Noel plays in E13 in "If They Should Ask Me" (check out the intro). You can hear him using it in It's All Your Fault, too, but not during the solo.

I should also add that Jules Ah See used the same E13 as Noel.
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Alex Cattaneo


From:
Quebec, Canada
Post  Posted 23 Sep 2011 3:28 pm    
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How about songs from the Steel Guitar Caviar album? Although JW uses the Vance Terry E13, I'm still curious.

The voicings on that Boggs E13 are pretty common on the guitar actually.

Strings 3-2-1: G# - C# - E (E13)

Strings 2-3-5: D - G# - C# (E13)

Strings 3-5-6: B - D - G# (E7)
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Ron Whitfield


From:
Kaaawa, Hawaii, USA
Post  Posted 23 Sep 2011 8:23 pm    
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Alex Cattaneo wrote:
@Ron: Believe me, owning and playing are two very different things!
Very true, I own too many and play too little. Learn the Jerry Byrd way and it won't matter what you got or play, it'll sound good.
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Morgan Scoggins


From:
Georgia, USA
Post  Posted 24 Sep 2011 3:39 am    
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Two songs that I thought of right off the top of my head are, Steel Guitar Rag and Pan Handle Rag. Both of these songs are fairly easy to play in E13 tuning but you will have to mostly ignore the 2nd string (c#) if you play the origional versions like "Take it away Leon".
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Greg Cutshaw


From:
Corry, PA, USA
Post  Posted 24 Sep 2011 6:50 am    
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I've got a few ideas here:

Link to Greg’s site


Greg

Edited to shorten the URL.
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Billy Tonnesen


From:
R.I.P., Buena Park, California
Post  Posted 24 Sep 2011 2:25 pm    
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Noel Boggs also used his E13th on his show tunes: Alabama Jubilee and Lover. When he had his own Jazz Quartet he used the E13th on most of the Pop Songs.
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Jim Bates


From:
Alvin, Texas, USA
Post  Posted 24 Sep 2011 3:28 pm    
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Listen to almost anything Bobby Koefer does, and you will hear the 8-string E 13th.

Thanx,
Jim
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Rick Winfield


From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
Post  Posted 25 Sep 2011 12:52 am     Greg Cutshaw
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Greg Cutshaw has got "more" than a "few ideas", for both pedal and non- pedal in various tunings. I've learned a lot from his website
thank you Greg
Rick
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Alex Cattaneo


From:
Quebec, Canada
Post  Posted 25 Sep 2011 9:04 pm    
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Thanks Guys. Guess I know what I'll be working on this week!
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Brian Hunter


From:
Indianapolis
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2011 3:46 am     Re: Greg Cutshaw
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Rick Winfield wrote:
Greg Cutshaw has got "more" than a "few ideas", for both pedal and non- pedal in various tunings. I've learned a lot from his website
thank you Greg
Rick



^ That.
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2011 3:52 am    
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I've been using the Vance Terry E13 on my 3rd neck for a little while and it is absolutely chock full of possibilities--much more than the Boggs E13, but it is for a different kind of playing and requires a pretty good right hand.
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Alex Cattaneo


From:
Quebec, Canada
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2011 4:58 am    
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Mike, what do you mean by "a different kind of playing"? Do you have some Vance Terry listening recommendations?
What would be the recommended string gauge for that tuning?

So far, I'm quite surprised to see all the different variations of E13 tunings. It seems to suggest that all these guys figured it out on their own and that there was no one way of doing things. Maybe it also explains the absence of learning material. While there are a bunch of tools for someone to learn C6, it seems that for E13, we're on our own.


If Wakefield is using the Vance Terry E13, that's a pretty strong argument to at least try it!
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2011 5:13 am    
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Alex Cattaneo wrote:
Mike, what do you mean by "a different kind of playing"? Do you have some Vance Terry listening recommendations?
What would be the recommended string gauge for that tuning?


Vance Terry recommendations = everything he ever played. If you want to hear his E13 stuff, get the Billy Jack Wills CDs. You should own Brisbane Bop regardless.

When I say different kind of playing, I mean more intricate single note stuff. There are very close intervals, as opposed to the Boggs version.

E13 is not that foreign to someone who has taken the time to learn Sol Hoopii's C#min7 tuning. I believe E13 is an extension of C#m7 (Sol Hoopii, Dick McIntire, Bob Nichols) and E7 (Andy Iona). There was a Hawaiian player in the '40s, Eddie Bush, who used E13 (6 string version). I spent the first 3 or 4 years playing the C#min tuning, so it still is very familiar terrain for me.
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Alex Cattaneo


From:
Quebec, Canada
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2011 5:26 am    
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I my sources are accurate, it seems that as far as the top 6 strings are concerned, a lot of players are on the same page:

Cashdollar, Remington, McCauliffe, Terry, Wakefield, Clinesmith, Wernick...

Then for the bottom 2, some use G# and B, and others use E and G#.

Coming from the world of guitar, I guess I'm used to having a plethora of sources to learn something: tabs, instructional videos, books, recordings, youtube, teachers, etc. It's a good thing we have this forum or I would be lost!
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2011 5:40 am    
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The best thing you could ever do is to sit down and learn as much as you can on your own. Transcribing from recordings is the best tool and if you spend enough time exhausting all the possibilities, you will see it all unfold before your eyes.

Sometimes you have to just see if you can make something work in whatever tuning you're using. If you want to play E13 but can't identify which recordings are E13, then just pick a tune and see if you can make it work. Obviously, hearing dominant sounds is a giveaway, but you can also hear the 13th chord if you listen enough. That chord is only available in a few tunings.

Here's a little essay I wrote on transcribing:
http://www.mikeneer.com/lapsteelin/2010/12/15/the-art-of-transcribing-just-do-it/
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Alex Cattaneo


From:
Quebec, Canada
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2011 5:47 am    
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Yep, transcribing is definitely one of the best ways to learn... I had already set my sights on transcribing everything on Steel Guitar Caviar, and now thanks to your interview, I know where to start! Although Johnny Sibert played mostly on his A6 neck, I tried to make it work on C6, and learned a lot in the process.
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2011 6:00 am    
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I think JW's solo on Tiny's Tempo would be a good example of his E13 playing (but I could be wrong). Laughing
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Rick Winfield


From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2011 8:18 am     Vt
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I've just listened to Mr. Vance's
"Slow boat to China",w/ Jimmy Rivers on guitar,
on facebook, and WOW !
Intircate chordal melodies, and almost "horn like" single note passages. Definitely a more complex spin than the usual swing I'm used to hearing.
I think I'm gonna take another look at THAT
E13 tuning !

Mike & Alex
I agree, transcribing is the way to go !
There's much to be learned, from many different instruments, as well as Steel
Rick


Last edited by Rick Winfield on 26 Sep 2011 8:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mike Neer


From:
NJ
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2011 8:29 am     Re: T.v.
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Rick Winfield wrote:
I've just listened to Mr. Vance's
"Slow boat to China",w/ Jimmy Rivers on guitar,
on facebook, and WOW !
Intircate chordal melodies, and almost "horn like" single note passages. Definitely a more complex spin than the usual swing I'm used to hearing.
I think I'm gonna take another look at THAT
E13 tuning !



Rick, he's playing pedal steel on that and I'm not sure of the copedant. Definitely not E13 non-pedal!
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Rick Winfield


From:
Pickin' beneath the Palmettos
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2011 8:36 am     Mike
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Little did/do I know !!
Thanks for straightening me out !
thanks
Rick
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Sonny Jenkins


From:
New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
Post  Posted 26 Sep 2011 11:48 am    
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Didn't Tom Morrell use an E13 tuning?
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