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Topic: Jeff Newman..... pick on side of picks |
Dale Hansen
From:
Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)
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Posted 16 Dec 2010 2:04 pm |
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Bo,
Nice diagram.
However, the figure you have tagged as 'Present' is more like true Newman form, than the form in the 'Newman' diagram. Where did you find that? Jeff most certainly didn't teach us that (2nd) thumb position.
Everybody that I know of extends the thumb out beyond the fingers.
I still have all of my Jeffran material tucked away somewhere, along with some other newsletter type things that he continued to send on occasion.
I'll see what I can dig up for you.
_________________
Bessdang Gizmos - "An Equal Opportunity Annoyer" |
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Dale Hansen
From:
Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)
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Posted 16 Dec 2010 2:10 pm
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| Stuart Tindall wrote: |
Jeffs right hand position
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Bo, something just dawned on me.
What is apparently confusing you in the above picture, is the fact that the index finger on Jeff's hand is hanging loose (inactive) in reserve, while he is alternating between the middle and thumb
(He's playing a single string riff)
_________________
Bessdang Gizmos - "An Equal Opportunity Annoyer" |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 16 Dec 2010 3:00 pm
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Jeff advocated the position of the picks on the fingers as the back of the pick at or just past the cuticle.
Bo,,yes Jeff crossed over with thumb and middle,,,seldom used first finger. In the picture the middle is well behind the thumb,,,he said it was a snapping your finger motion. |
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Jarek Anderson
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 16 Dec 2010 8:33 pm
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I've been working through Right hand Alpha like mad the last couple days, and I want to get my habits right from the start...
Should the flat part of the JF pick that comes to a point be touching my fingertip...? Or how much of a gap should there be???
Thanks,
Jarek |
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Dale Hansen
From:
Hendersonville,Tennessee, (USA)
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Posted 17 Dec 2010 9:04 am
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Whaddya know...I found it.
I hope some of you fellas might get some benefit from this.
This was a free publication sent out by Jeff in the early 80's, so I doubt that he would object to posting it here.
This booklet may still be available from Jeffran, free for the asking.
Cover
pg 1
pg 2
pg 3
pg 4
pg 5
pg 6
pg 7
pg 8
pg 9
pg 10
_________________
Bessdang Gizmos - "An Equal Opportunity Annoyer" |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 17 Dec 2010 11:26 am
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Dale thank you for posting that.
But this is almost totally opposite to what I read which stated that you extended the index and middle finger and only move the fingers at the big knuckle.
I’m sure Jeff’s right hand was not exactly the same as Buddy’s.
I guess things just change with time, just like Jeff's tuning chart. But it's all good.
P.S I see here I was right about one thing in that the cross over picking is done out of necessity with the thumb and middle finger. |
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steinar
From:
Finneidfjord, Norway
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Posted 17 Dec 2010 11:46 pm Right hand position.
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Bo.
The orginal topic of this post was that Jeff is attributed having said that you could stretch fingers and pick with the side of your picks for speed`s sake.
The pictures now posted do not show that, but rather Jeff`s regular positon, - and as you have seen, the post has now evolved into a general discussion about his right hand position.
Granted, no two hands of two different players are identical, but Buddy and Jeff were "on the same page." The difference was that Buddy`s pinky was somewhat more separated from his ring finger than Jeff`s was. Also, Buddy`s knuckle was if possible, even more peaked than Jeff`s.
Buddy Charleton`s right hand position and shape, is the most identical one to Buddy`s that I have ever had the opportunity to see up close.
I`m no self proclaimed expert, but having had the fortuitous opportunity to spend time watching these individual right hands in teaching situations, - those are my observations. |
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2010 6:01 pm
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I remember studying this handout many years ago for hours and hours trying to understand the logic of it all. Once I understood that logic it all fell into place and has been second nature ever since.
I have to admit, though, that at first, I thought Jeff was nuts, but my respect for him made me hang in there. And I'm glad I did.
BTW...those are pics of Buddy's hands.
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Mike Wheeler
From:
Delaware, Ohio, USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 4:43 am
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Guess I got too wrapped up in the memories, Basil. 
_________________
Best regards,
Mike |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 5:51 am Re: Right hand position.
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Just for posterity and clarification, and in case the original gets edited..
| steinar wrote: |
Bo.
The orginal topic of this post was that Jeff is attributed having said that you could stretch fingers and pick with the side of your picks for speed`s sake.
The pictures now posted do not show that, but rather Jeff`s regular positon, - and as you have seen, the post has now evolved into a general discussion about his right hand position.
Granted, no two hands of two different players are identical, but Buddy and Jeff were "on the same page." The difference was that Buddy`s pinky was somewhat more separated from his ring finger than Jeff`s was. Also, Buddy`s knuckle was if possible, even more peaked than Jeff`s.
Buddy Charleton`s right hand position and shape, is the most identical one to Buddy`s that I have ever had the opportunity to see up close.
I`m no self proclaimed expert, but having had the fortuitous opportunity to spend time watching these individual right hands in teaching situations, - those are my observations. |
Ain't memory a strange thing ? |
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steinar
From:
Finneidfjord, Norway
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 7:58 am Jeff`s hand.
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Basil.
You`re quite justified in correcting me, - of course it`s Buddy`s hands, his ring, his bracelet. I have that very pamplet/booklet in front of me, and it was a writing mistake that I became aware of shortly after posting.
However, my point was the regular shape of Jeff`s right picking hand(as opposed to stretched fingers), and the slight difference between his and Buddy`s right hand, and there I think my memory serves me correct, - notwithstanding senior moments.
If you have made different observations, I`d be interested to hear.
By the way, I understand winter has hit you hard over there, so I hope things normalize for you soon.
Greeting from minus 18C over here in Norway,
Steinar |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 9:02 am
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Steinar my Friend, I wasn't correcting you, more like slapping your wrist and pointing out the error of your wicked ways !! 
The weather has excelled itself in the sense that we're experiencing momentarily what to you probably seems the norm..Anyway, Heathrow has planes STUCK to the ground unable to move..
| Quote: |
British Airways
"We are aiming to get seven departures away from Heathrow today |
Here in Tamworth it's -7 .. it WAS -20 earlier this week, and we have "Black Ice" "Freezing Fog" and snow falling on top of the "Black Ice"
Needles to say I'm going nowhere, staying in my music room and keeping in touch via the 'net'.
Funny thing about the picking technique described, I've ALWAYS played that way, even to the hand placement with the bar.. It seemed the natural thing to do...
I can't understand players that have their picks straight, I'm pretty sure that it's hampering their fluidity. Can you imagine a concert guitarist with his nails on the OTHER side of his fingers ?
Still I suppose you can get used to anything, just look at Billy Hew Len .. |
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KENNY KRUPNICK
From:
Grove City,Ohio
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 9:53 am
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This is great for anyone.  Is it possible to post it in PDF for printing? |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 10:43 am
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| I'm doing it now.. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 10:46 am
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Done:- It's here:- Click to Download
For anyone that CAN'T download it, just E-Mail me and I'll send it by return.
This was just a "Quickie" I'll clean it up and make it B/W (Monochrome) Later..
Later has arrived (19:33pm)
It's now done in B/W Click HERE
_________________
Steelies do it without fretting
CLICK THIS to view my tone bars and buy——>
Last edited by basilh on 19 Dec 2010 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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steinar
From:
Finneidfjord, Norway
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 10:56 am Hand!
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Basil.
My New Year`s resolution is to pull myself up by my bootstraps and become a better man!
As for fluidity in playing with straight picks, what do you think of Tom Brumley in the sixties, doing just just that? All that amazing stuff on his "Tomcattin`" album?
"We didn`t know better," he used to say. In later years he also bent his picks, though.
If you`re a natural when it comes to the peaked knuckle and the "hold a tennis ball" finger curvature, I envy you. I try to improve my speed and fluidity, and I still experiment, Jeff vs Doug/Jay Dee. Sometimes my right hand just freezes up during the first songs on a stage, no fluidity and missed strings galore.
Ah, the trials and tribulations of a wanna-be steelie.
What you describe in the U.K. now weather-wise, sounds extreme. Let`s don our leis and go to Hawaii, Basil!
Aloha,
Steinar |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 11:36 am
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Steinar wrote:
| Quote: |
Granted, no two hands of two different players are identical, but Buddy and Jeff were "on the same page." The difference was that Buddy`s pinky was somewhat more separated from his ring finger than Jeff`s was. Also, Buddy`s knuckle was if possible, even more peaked than Jeff`s.
Buddy Charleton`s right hand position and shape, is the most identical one to Buddy`s that I have ever had the opportunity to see up close. |
Steinar, your observations are correct.
I recall reading Buddy's explanation of how he did right-hand blocking of single-string passages in an old Guitar Player magazine column and also in his “Ask Buddy” Web column.
Unlike most other steel-players, Buddy uses a unique two-point blocking system.
Buddy blocks his thumb-picked notes with the ball of his right thumb, and blocks his middle-finger picked notes with his right-hand ring finger.
This clever approach allowed Buddy to hold his right hand higher than most other steel players, and swing it freely back and forth, so his thumb and middle finger acted somewhat like a guitar flatpick.
You can see this clearly on the series of YouTube clips Buddy did with Frenchie Burke:
FIDDLIN FRENCHIE BURKE - COLINDA.mpg (Buddy plays without looking)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmutsCfjkKQ&feature=related
FIDDLIN FRENCHIE BURKE - MAMA'S GOT THE KNOW HOW.mpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70EgETXKaSo&feature=related
FIDDLIN FRENCHIE BURKE - BIG MAMOU.mpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cktg8tpWt3Y&feature=related
FIDDLIN FRENCHIE BURKE - CAJUN FIDDLE.mpg (great closeup of Buddy's hands)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i6HxR1AwPo&feature=channel
I have noticed that Buddy Charleton also used this approach, as can be seen on the YouTube clips of Charleton and Leon Rhodes, such as:
The Texas Troubadours -- Leon Rhodes, Buddy Charleton - Rhodes-Bud Boogie (2:22)
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=71A3E27051CDCD79&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&v=pP9mDEri85o
• The Texas Troubadours - Leon Rhodes, Buddy Charleton - Honey Fingers (2:14)
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9C8E4D7C79761A28&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&v=PZyM85ltQ1I
This may help explain the difference between Buddy’s hand shape and position and Jeff Newman’s, since Jeff primarily used palm-blocking.
- Dave |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 11:52 am
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Yep we'll head off there if not in reality then in our dreams AND Music..
Facing Waikiki Beach at the Halekulani "House Without a Key" Pat and myself took that in 2004.
BTW My right hand naturally assumes that illustrated position because of the physiotherapy after my polio.
Picking up marbles with my feet and squeezing "Squash" balls in my hands.
From when I was 4years of age 'till 10, in an Iron lung just exercising my hands and calf/ankle muscles whilst reading all day. And later of course I swam and cycled a LOT. Result, I'm ambidextrous and can crush walnuts all day. I'm gonna be in demand come Christmas in our family..
I often cross my feet whilst using the pedals, second nature to me now..
SSSR1
Basil
(Standard Seasonal Salutatory Response No.1)
<I>
Mele Kalikimaka me ka Hauʻoli Makahiki Hou
Pakile Henriques
Last edited by basilh on 19 Dec 2010 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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steinar
From:
Finneidfjord, Norway
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 11:57 am Hands.
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Dave.
Excellent analysis and documentation!
The summer of 2009, my good friend Billy Knowles arranged for me to have a lesson by Buddy Charleton. When I observed Buddy`s playing up close, I had a distinct feeling of deja vu when watching his right hand: Buddy Emmons. The latter I got to see at Jeffran College, taking a week long C6 course from him.
And I remember commenting on the right hand similarities to Buddy C..
Mickey Adams - if you`re reading this - wouldn´t posts like Dave`s be exactly what you had in mind for your new web site?
Thanks again, Dave.
Steinar |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 12:03 pm
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I noticed the remark about Buddy "Not Looking" whilst playing, I didn't know it was mandatory to actually look, and I wonder how many don't look frequently at the left hand/right hand or fretboard in general ?.
I have noticed beginners leaning back to see what pedals they're on..
Interesting that Tom Brumley EVENTUALLY went the curved picks road.. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 19 Dec 2010 12:47 pm
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| basilh wrote: |
| I can't understand players that have their picks straight, I'm pretty sure that it's hampering their fluidity. |
Not at all. Curved picks did though, and 10 years of practicing didn't solve the problem.
Think it has to do with something as simple as differences in how hands are shaped by nature, and what work/training they're adjusted to. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 20 Dec 2010 3:06 am
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That MUST be the answer Georg, there are so many stalwart proponents of so many variations that It MUST be "Horses for Courses" "If the Cap Fits etc" "Cut the Cloth to fit the Suit" et al ad infinitum ad nauseum..
I could NEVER play with straight picks and never even tried to but once. Likewise with a round bar, I never felt need for the "Crutch" of the "Easier to hold" variations.
It is such a diverse subject, I'm pretty sure that personal experiences are just that, personal, not necessarily apropos to other players. |
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Bo Legg
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Posted 22 Dec 2010 2:36 am
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| I can can pick fast. But I can't pick good and fast. |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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