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Topic: Bar Weight |
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 29 Aug 2009 6:37 am |
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I'm trying to spec out a new bar---maybe custom, maybe off the shelf--and I need baseline readings.
What is the approximate weight of a standard BJS 15/16" 12 string bar?
I don't have a kitchen or postal scale and I haven't a clue how many ounces this (heavy) beast is. It's my gamer but I'm toying with the idea of a lighter bar.
Anyone know how much weight is lost in a BJS Hughey model?
I'm also thinking of a Tribotone. Maybe even very lightweight. But first....the numbers. 17 pounds? :>) |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 29 Aug 2009 6:46 am
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http://www.bjsbars.com/bars.html
I apologize.
Google is my friend.
Google is my friend.
Google is my friend.
Google is my friend.
Google is my friend.
Google is my friend.
Google is my friend.
Google is my friend.
Google is my friend.
Google is my friend.
Google is my friend.
Google is my friend.
Google is my friend.
 |
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Mark Treepaz
From:
Hamburg, New York USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2009 5:09 am
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Jon,
I too am toying with the idea of a slightly lighter bar.
I'm currently using a 15/16 X 3-3/8 BJS bar. It's a great bar with vey "smooth" action. My only problem is with the weight of it. I find that when I have to make quick horizontal moves, it can be like pushing a brick around!
I see on their web site, that BJS also offers a John Hughey Series of bars which are slighter lighter than their standard series, which has caught my attention.
I've done some online comparisons of some of the most commonly available tone bars. Here's what I've found (per published specs):
John Pearse
7/8 x 3-1/4 = 8.1 oz.
1 x 3-1/4 = 10.7 oz.
Dunlop
#920 7/8 x 3-1/4 = 7.5 oz.
#921 1 x 3-1/4 = 11.5 oz.
BJS
Standard 7/8 x 3-3/8 = 8.5 oz.
Standard 15/16 x 3-3/8 = 9.8 oz.
Standard 1 x 3-3/8 = 11.3 oz.
John Hughey Series 7/8 x 3-3/8 = 7.4 oz.
John Hughey Series 15/16 x 3-3/8 = 8.6 oz.
John Hughey Series 1 x 3-3/8 = 10.2 oz.
I may also try a 7/8 diameter bar. Although, when I first started playing PSG, I had a difficult time with smaller diameter bars. However, that was when I was first starting out, so the problem may have not been so much with the bar, but rather my lack of any technique.
I'm curious if you had found anything other than what I've listed above? Have you looked into any custom made tone bars?
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Gretsch Syncromatic Lap Steel, Fender Steel King amp, Bach Stradivarious 37 Trumpet, Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn, 68 Fender Precision Bass
Last edited by Mark Treepaz on 15 Sep 2009 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2009 7:02 am
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I'm a huge fan of lighter bars. My #1 is a homemade delrin bar 1.25" X 3.375", 4 oz. I have a similar-sized leaded-crystal 6 oz. bar from Diamond Bottleneck. Marty Smith just made me a lovely, super-hollow 1" X 3.35" stainless steel bar, 5.4 oz. I find below about 3 oz. the tone loss is unbearable - b@njo time! - but after that, the tradeoffs are all musically-useful.
Of course you can hold and move a big light bar better... I'm trying to play things that aren't in the normal steel repertoire, and it doesn't matter how many positions you learn or how many pedals you have, at some point you're going to have to move the bar. I'm not trying to become an Indian but I wish I had this guy's bar moves -
Mommy, my BJS won't work!
(I do have a narrow 5" bar, but the lighter shorter ones let you do normal steel stuff better) |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 8 Sep 2009 11:31 am
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I just last week ordered a Diamond crystal bar (thanks for the reference last month, David) and I'm awaiting delivery. Smaller than yours (a hair under an inch at 25 mm), similar length. I'm looking for a different, funkier sound than I get with the BJS and I'm interested in the anti-gravity properties. This will be for alt. steel playing, not Way To Survive.
I was messing around with some lightweight found-object bars and then I'd pick up the BJS and it was like trying to push an anvil underwater. I just might check out a BJS Hughey or a Marty Smith semi-hollowed out bar for my standard playing---if I can establish that there's no need to push around a 10 pound piece of steel in order to get fat tone....that has a certain appeal.
Mark T---have a look here:
http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com/DB08/index.asp?n=17
Also here:
http://www.tribotone.com/slides.html
I'm very interested in these. Also at that site, check out the youtube of Fred Kinbom demo-ing some bars. My compliments to him for a great job and a great service. |
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Mark Treepaz
From:
Hamburg, New York USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2009 7:43 am
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A steel playing colleague of mine lent me a bar to try. It's a standard bullet style bar, 7/8" dia. X 3-3/8"L but only weighs 5.4 oz. I've been trying it out over the past couple of days. The problem is, he doesn't recall where he acquired this bar. He's had it for quite a while, but doesn't really use it much. However, he doesn't want to part with it. I'd like to get the same bar for myself, but don't know who the manufacturer is. I don't recognize the logo on the end of the bar.
Below is a picture of the logo on the end of the bar. Does anyone know who made this bar?
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Gretsch Syncromatic Lap Steel, Fender Steel King amp, Bach Stradivarious 37 Trumpet, Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn, 68 Fender Precision Bass
Last edited by Mark Treepaz on 15 Sep 2009 5:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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A. J. Martinez
From:
Ca.
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Posted 14 Sep 2009 7:57 am
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| DUNLOP |
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Chuck Snider
From:
West Virginia, USA - Morgantown, WV
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Posted 14 Sep 2009 1:05 pm
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A.J. is right, the logo you see there is JD for Jim Dunlop.
I've never seen what the BJS John Hughey bars look like, What makes them unique, aside from being an ounce or so lighter?
-Chuck
_________________
GFI U-12 Ultra Keyless, Carter Black U-12, both with Alumitones, and a sweet '70 Sho-Bud Permanent D-10, NV400 in Rick Johnson cabs, NV112, '73 Vibrosonic in Rick Johnson cabs, Hilton pedal, Steeler's Choice seat, Bessdang Gizmos from Dale Hansen, and a few other widgets and doodads.
I may not sound good, I just don't wanna sound bad. |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 15 Sep 2009 12:15 am
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Ive been using a Dunlop 920, but I get fatigue from the weight. I may be shopping for a lightweight BJS bar 
David,
That was cool indeed! Mostly played on one string too it appears. If you slowed it down its like an eastern Robert Randolph  |
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Joe Naylor
From:
Avondale, Arizona, USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2009 10:32 am
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Here we go again - I made some bars a few years ago. I went to a show with a bunch and you can get all the opinions possible on bars.
My conclusion after that was (1) do not try to build bars (2) everyone (and I mean everyone) has an opinion what is the best
Down to 1/4" to long or too short
My conclusion - play with what you LIKE and forget all the opinions
_________________
Joe Naylor, Avondale, AZ (Phoenix) Announcer/Emcee owner www.steelseat.com *** OFFERING SEATS AND Effects cases with or without legs and other stuff ****** -Desert Rose Guitar S-10, Life Member of the Arizona Carport Pickers Assoc., Southwest Steel Guitar Assoc., Texas Steel Guitar Assoc., GA Steel Guitar Assoc., KS Steel Guitar Assoc. (Asleep at the Steel) tag line willed to me by a close late friend RIP |
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Mark Treepaz
From:
Hamburg, New York USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2009 11:30 am
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| Clete Ritta wrote: |
| Ive been using a Dunlop 920, but I get fatigue from the weight. I may be shopping for a lightweight BJS bar |
Clete,
Are you sure that you're using a Dunlop 920 ? That's a lighter bar to begin with. Basically, it's the same weight as the BJS John Hughey series bar. (Note that the BJS is slightly longer (1/8") than the Dunlop 920.)
Dunlop #920 7/8 x 3-1/4 = 7.5 oz.
BJS John Hughey Series 7/8 x 3-3/8 = 7.4 oz.
If I had to choosed between the two, I'd go with the BJS. Although, for testing/trial purposes the Dunlop would be less expensive.
_________________
Sho-Bud LDG, Gretsch Syncromatic Lap Steel, Fender Steel King amp, Bach Stradivarious 37 Trumpet, Getzen Eterna Flugelhorn, 68 Fender Precision Bass |
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Clete Ritta
From:
San Antonio, Texas
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Posted 17 Sep 2009 12:02 pm
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Mark,
Yes its a Dunlop 920 7.5 oz. bar. I dont know what it is, but occasionally the top of my hand gets cramped up after playing continuously for a long period. Its probably just that: playing continuously for a long period. Id like to try a lighter bar and/or larger diameter too just for comparison. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 17 Sep 2009 1:15 pm
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| Clete Ritta wrote: |
Mark,
Yes its a Dunlop 920 7.5 oz. bar. I dont know what it is, but occasionally the top of my hand gets cramped up after playing continuously for a long period. |
Unless you have some physiological problem, you should be able to play for hours and hours without getting cramps.
Most all players who have a problem with pain are holding the bar improperly, or too tightly. Relaxed is the keyword, here.
I also agree with what Joe said. Use what pleases you, and forget taking surveys to determine what sounds best. If you sound bad with a 7/8" bar, you'll probably sound bad with any other size, too. Another 1/16" may make you feel good, but it won't do beans for your sound. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 17 Sep 2009 1:37 pm
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Surveys? Opinions? Where do people come up with this stuff?
Data. Information. Experimentation. Exploration. Bad! |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2009 8:01 am
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"quilted" MDF nylon: 1.25" X "3.75" - 3.1 oz
delrin: 1.25" X 3.75"- 4.0 oz
delrin: 1.375" X 4.0" - 4.6 oz
hollow steel: 1.0" X 3.375" - 5.4 oz
hollow steel: .875" X 3.0" - 5.5 oz
solid steel: .75" X 3.375" - 6.2 oz
leaded crystal: 1.25" X 3.75" - 6.6 oz
solid steel: .75" X 5.0" - 10 oz (approx)
solid steel 1.0" X 3.375" - 11 oz (approx)
My postal scale is "creative", all weights are for comparison purposes only... the heaviest two are a guess, based on what a 1" X 3.375" bar usually weighs. The solid steel bars are all Burdens, the delrin & nylon ones are homemade. The big hollow one is a new one from Marty Smith - amazing, it's got like a 13/16" hole bored into a 1" bar! The smaller hollow one I bought from forumite Roy Ayres, it was made in 1958 and used on historical Pee Wee King stuff - it's got "vibes".... both hollow bars are round-nose, it's a cloudy day so this is as good as it gets:
My #1 remains the 1.25" Delrin, #2 vacillates between the new Marty & the Diamond Bottleneck crystal one - but they all score "string time" at least every week. I used to collect Ferraris instead, but the chauffeur got testy about all the waxing & polishing.
(there are OTHERS....)  (anybody wanna score some delrin, nylon or acrylic rod cheap, lemme know - I tried to sell some bars, once, but they're WAY too weird for you ol' stick-in-the-muds) 
P.S. (Mark - if you can give Marty Smith some reasonably close specs - length, diameter, ideal wished-for weight - he can make a hollow bar do anything you want. You couldn't get much hollower than my 5.4 zzz, but that's what you want, right?)
Marty Smith |
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Charles Davidson
From:
Phenix City Alabama, USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2009 7:42 pm
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I think [just my opinion]You control the bar don't it control you. One time a friend and I were in Bobbe's store .He was testdriving a guitar he had gotten in. We were standing there just watching.When we left my buddy said,That bar looked like it was just FLOATING effortless across the strings.He was using the bar,not the bar using him. YOU BETCHA,DYK?BC.
_________________
Hard headed, opinionated old geezer. BAMA CHARLIE. GOD BLESS AMERICA. ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST. SUPPORT LIVE MUSIC ! |
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Mark McCornack
From:
California, USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2019 3:41 pm
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Very comprehensive collection of bars. I’m quite interested in the “quilted†nylon one you made. Super cool looking. Is this material available as off the shelf stock? If so, from whom? Cylindrical or square doesn’t matter to me , I’ll be turning them down..
Currently I have 2 bars; 6.3 oz and 8.7 oz. I feel like this may be a “three bears†scenario where a midway bar might suit me “just right†(such as the Dunlop #620 @ 7.5 oz). I may try a delrin or nylon bar and put a steel slug in it to get the weight up a bit.
Thanks,
Mark  |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2019 6:30 am
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I bought a small oval shaped Digital Scale meant for kitchen-countertop use.
It works great for instantly knowing the exact weight of every bar you have.
I have brought it to steel conventions for bar buying purposes (Now I need a pocket-size version with a small tape measure built in ) |
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Larry Behm
From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
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Posted 2 Feb 2019 8:16 am
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No one has talked about bar weight and tone!
_________________
'70 D10 Black fatback Emmons PP, Hilton VP, BJS bars, Boss GE-7 for Dobro effect, Zoom MS50G, Flamma Reverb, Planet Wave cables, Quilter 202 Toneblock, Telonics 15” speaker.
Phone: 971-219-8533 |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 2 Feb 2019 8:27 am
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I went from a standard 3/4" BJS to the 15/16" many years ago. I liked it immediately because I felt it filled my hand better, if that makes sense. My hands are on the large side.
I also declared at the time that my tone had improved but, looking back, that might have been self-hypnosis. I felt more comfortable so it 'sounded better'.
I'm sure the difference is indiscernible.
_________________
Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
---------------------------------- |
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Mark McCornack
From:
California, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2019 10:25 am
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| Larry Behm wrote: |
| No one has talked about bar weight and tone! |
When I spoke of the “three bears†scenario above (should have said “three barsâ€), for me it is involving this trade off of ease in playability and tone. The lighter bar seems easier to move quickly and accurately and I think the heavier bar may have better sustain and tone. As fas as sustain though, the volume pedal can do much to compensate for a slightly faster decay with the lighter bar. It’s not like the bottom drops out entirely with the light one.
I don’t know. I think there is lots of room for experimentation, and if there was one “right†choice, everyone who plays would be using the same bar. |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2019 3:11 pm
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Maurice Anderson swore by the Tribotone bars, so I used them until mine was stolen with some other stuff. I was dismayed to find Tribotone is out of business until Basil Henriques started making his Eezee Slide bars - very light, wonderful tone and sustain. Although BJS makes great bars (I own one), I prefer these by far. He makes them to order with several options - highly recommended
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 2 Feb 2019 7:35 pm Bar Weight
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When I played an E9th S10, I used a George L 1" X 3 3/8" weight 9oz.
When I Bought my S12 U GFI there was a Dunlop 221 in with the guitar. It is 1" X 3 3/4" weight 11.5 oz., Stainless Steel. It is some sort of special tool stainless, A magnet grabs and lifts the bar.
With my long finger, wide, thin hands, I personally like a 1 inch 11.5 oz. bar. It allows my fingers to hold the bar below its center, by my fingers being below the center of the bar allows for a firm hold without much pressure applied to the bar.
A heavy bar does not require much down pressure, The weight of the bar gives it good contact with the strings. All you have to do is move it left and right and tip it up. If I have to go to a lighter bar, I would rather drill the weight out of the center of the bar and keep the 1" diameter for easy manipulation on the strings.
Our hands are all made different, So it is what size fits our hands for comfort and dexterity is important. I am back playing in a house band and may have to play 3 or 4 hours of the show with just a couple breaks, I want no left hand pain or cramps. |
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Charlie Hansen
From:
Halifax, NS Canada and Various Southern Towns.
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Posted 2 Feb 2019 8:19 pm
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I bought a Hillman coated bar from a forumite and I think it's great. I just wish it was a little longer. Maybe 3/8 of an inch. Are Hillman bars still in production?
_________________
I don't know much but what I know I know very well.
Carter S-10 3X5, Peavey Nashville 112, plus Regal dobro and too many other instruments to mention.
Bluegrass Island CFCY FM 95.1 Charlottetown, PE, Canada, on the web at cfcy.fm.
A Touch Of Texas CIOE FM 97.5 Sackville, NS, Canada,
on the web at cioe975.ca. |
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Dan Robinson
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 6 Feb 2019 1:44 pm
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A Dunlop 921 (1" x 3-3/4", 11.5 oz.) helped me break my bad habit of applying too much downward bar pressure. I learned to "let it float," had less bar-chatter, and my tone was better, or so I thought.
On to lifting the bar, where I discovered I am NOT "The Bar-inator" (listen to me now, and lift me later). I can't gracefully lift an 11 ounce bar.
I'm back to using my 7/8" x 3-1/4" stainless bar. Excess pressure habit is broken, no bar chatter, good tone (better?), and pursuing continued bar handling improvement. My take away is what I learned with a different bar, not any inherent advantage of the bar itself.
This is working for me... for now. I don't think I'd like a lighter bar. But what good is a great mind if you can't change it? |
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