Alternative to V lever (the one that lowers the B to Bb)

Britt Newsome · From: Colorado, USA

I am getting a new pedal steel built and am choosing the configuration. I have played two pedal steels in my life both of which had the straight-forward Emmons setup. The one part of this setup that I don't like is the vertical lever (lowers the 5th and 10th B strings by 1/2 step to Bb)- I use it rarely, but it is difficult to play physically (I feel like I am on a machine at the gym), and I am wondering if there is an alternative configuration that avoids the vertical lever. Perhaps I need to lower the lever itself to make it more accessible or simply practice more, but I thought I would ask about other setup options. Thank you.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Older steels with vert. levers (both Sho-Bud and Emmons come to mind) that do NOT descend down from the body are useless to me and my short legs. But some newer steels have found fixes. Mullen, Williams and Sierra are ones I know of (Williams & Sierra I own). The problem with a lever that is brought down to leg level is figuring out a way to close the case. These guitars have extension knuckles that fold back. My Williams hangs way low, less than an inch off of my knee and it requires very minimal movement. I use it a lot so this solution was huge for me.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I use that B to Bb a lot and I have it on RKL on my Emmons.

The LKV was useless to me for the same reason t6hat Jon cites - short legs!

Junior Mercer, though, fitted a very effective extender that bring the lever down maybe 1.5" Now it's eminently usable and I have put my 1,2,7 raise on there. It works wonderfully and I've ordered the same on my new guitar.

Lowering the 5th (split tuned with the A pedal) has countless uses. Admittedly some can be achieved with half-pedaling the A, but by no means all.

Although my recently-acquired JCH has that pull on LKV, I don't have sufficient rods to switch LKV with RKL, so I live with it. The JCH' vertical can be adjusted downwards.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

Mike Holder · Posted 18 Jul 2024 6:17 am

With that setup it is the most logical place to have that change and it’s very useful, I have always felt the steel should fit you like a suit so you don’t have to move very much to activate levers or pedals. If there’s a big difference in how much you have to raise your leg to hit the lever you may want to spend some time readjusting your guitar to fit your body. It does feel awkward at first but actually works better once you get used to it. Try this on one of your current guitars then have your new one built to those specs.
_________________
I thought Nashville was the roughest, but I know I’ve said the same about them all.
I received my education, drivin through the Nation listenin to Paul!.. ( Franklin that is! )

Tiny Olson · From: Mohawk River Valley, Upstate NY

I have that change (Bs to Bb, strings 5 & 10) on my front, LKL lever. It's a staggered lever. I've been using it there for some 45 years. The rear LKL raises Es to F. I play D-10 Emmons guitars with a fairly standard Emmons setup, although I do have 7 levers on them.

I have found that change to be much more comfortable to use having it on the additional LKL lever. Other folks may not, for me it makes it. I have the opposite problem that many speak of in that I'm tall and need my guitars built 2" taller than standard. I've never had a problem reaching the vert lever, I just never found it all that comfortable to use. Like you said Britt, a machine at the gym. While I do have a vert lever for the E9th on my left knee I have my least-used change on it.

Hi Jon... hope you're well man.

Bill McCloskey · Posted 18 Jul 2024 6:29 am

For me, hitting the V lever was nearly impossible until I lowered my steels by an inch and got a seat with adjustable height. I tried everything including using plumbing insulation to wrap around the lever so I could reach it easier. Now I have no problem hitting it. BTW, Paul Franklin's setup doesn't even have a B -> Bb lower. His vertical Raises the 6th string G# 3 half tones to a B. There is no B lower (other than on the franklin pedal which lowers it to A.

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

Indispensable to me for C6 type sounds and diminished chords with split tuning. A bit awkward to hit but with the right height shoes and/or the right knee lever adjustment I can use it fluidly. I have staggered levers on the left knee left but they're tied up for other uses.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I have a 1975 and a 1976 MSA. Both U-12's. The stock vertical lever wasn't reachable for me. I configured a ball and socket, (like the floor pedals) detachable vertical lever to make it collapse and fit in the case. A quick connection when setting up. It's adjustable for height. Works great. I recently installed a 6th knee lever (LKR) staggered. I've found that the 4 knee levers on the left has to be tweaked according to where I sit at the steel and I have to be at that position each time I play to make them comfortable to play. It all works, but has to be detailed. My thoughts now are, maybe two left knee verticals next to each other would be more practical than two LKR knees?
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

I use mine from time to time though not nearly as frequent as my other knee levers or pedals A, B and C. Still, when I need it, I need it.

Installed the LKV on my Mullen G2 myself though had to buy their little extender to make it a useful height Winking

_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK

Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW

Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA

Nick Krol · From: Rhode Island, USA

Here's another vote for having it on a second LKL lever. Easier to hit and easier to go back and forth between the lever and the A pedal.

A lot of people talk about getting a full diminished 7th chord by having this change on the vertical with the A pedal split, and also B pedal and E lower. This combo isn't possible if you put it on the LKL and have the standard Emmons LKR E lower.

BUT diminished chords are nice in that if you are playing a full diminished 7th chord, you can move the shape up or down 3 frets and be playing a different inversion of the same chord. Which means you're never more than couple frets away from being able to play any diminished chord. So while that split trick mentioned above is a straightforward way of doing it, the standard Emmons setup already gives you a variety of ways to get the same thing.
_________________
The sticker makes it sound better

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

That diminished option is easy for me - A and B pedals with LKL to lower the Es and RKL lowering the Bs (split).

I believe Tommy White lowers his Bs on RKL, too (and he's a Day player- Smile

).

I like that combo for a dim across 8 to 3.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I put the B to Bb (on the 5th string only) on my RKL.
I took off the vertical because I do better with a simple set up.
_________________
Bob

Michael Sawyer · From: North Carolina, USA

I put a the high E to F # on my vertical for some Mooney licks with A and B pedals down.
I dont even use the C pedal anymore.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Every so often, I will set up my old SKH Emmons with just 8+4. It requires me to think more laterally (if I want extended/altered chords) and, in any case, I could happily do a show on it (if I had any shows to play. Sad

)

Conversely, I enjoy a profusion of pulls (8+9 is my standard) because, while steel guitar has a beautiful sound, it is also a conundrum.

I'm sometimes of the opinion that it's a bit like a musical board game. Smile

_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

John Hyland · From: South Australia

I don’t have a vertical but have the B>Bb on RKL. With emmons pedals it is nice knee squeeze action with the LKR and pedals for that dim. With a split and A pedal there is a chromatic run C# to Bb which I imagine is not very easy if using a vertical.
I’m more inclined to add extra pedals (and double foot if required) and am still thinking what might be best options for that.

Ron Funk · From: Ballwin, Missouri

I share Tiny Olson's comments on this subject....

"I have that change (Bs to Bb, strings 5 & 10) on my front, LKL lever. It's a staggered lever.

The rear LKL raises E's to F."

....with only one slight change.....8 knee levers on all my Emmons D-10 steels

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

This guitar needed lower plus length to make VKL use easy.
This wood addition has a lock, That locks the extension on the lever, But is easy to unlock and remove for casing the guitar.

Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

I have Bflat lower on Left Vertical Knee on one guitar & an extra 4th pedal on another. I can do either. But I actually prefer the 4th pedal and double footing for certain combinations. It feels psychologically more intuitive to press Down and Lower a string instead of raising your leg up. I do have to double foot for certain combinations such as AB plus Bflat, pulling my foot off the volume pedal, so I staggered the 4th pedal away from the other 3 to find it more easily without looking. But its not always double footing. only sometimes. The first pro level guitar I bought had Bflat as a 4th pedal, so I never knew any other way. There's always something different out there. There's always another way to get something done.
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500.

Bobby Hearn · From: Henrietta, Tx

I removed the Bb on the vertical and changed it to 6th string G#-F# with vertical. That change was on LKR but I raise 2nd a half with that lever and I use the G#-F# with the 2nd string D# a lot.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I've always had the B-Bb on a pedal, next to the A pedal. (It's my Day p4.)

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

Reece said he couldn't live w/o that lever. Here's a mod I made for Greg Leisz

[img][/img]

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Look really adjustable, Jim. Is that a B to Bb change?

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

It is- I bent the lever to be relatively flat relative to the guitar prior to adding the extension.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic