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Author Topic:  Really Zumthing
Larry Behm


From:
Mt Angel, Or 97362
Post  Posted 4 Feb 2009 5:07 am    
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I saw this guitar in the flesh, oh what a wonderful day. I had not seen the underside of a Zum Hybrid before so it was a real treat. Lynn Stafford just rec'd this guitar (#3) so we spent an hour or so running it up the flag pole. Sounds as good as it looks.




Larry Behm


Last edited by Larry Behm on 5 Feb 2009 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tony Glassman


From:
The Great Northwest
Post  Posted 4 Feb 2009 1:07 pm    
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Larry.....Lynn

How about some under-carriage pix. Would love to especially see some changer photos.
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John McClung


From:
Olympia WA, USA
Post  Posted 7 Feb 2009 9:45 am    
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What Tony said, Larry!!! Changer pix!!!
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Lynn Stafford


From:
Oregon City, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 8 Feb 2009 10:24 am     ZumSteel Hybrid
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Here's a few photos of the E9 changer and the under carriage.









If you look closely, you can see the part of the raise finger that contacts the body during the raising process. The brass hex nuts are used in a similar way that set collars on an Emmons PP are used (at the bell crank end) of the pull rod. This guitar sounds about as close to an Emmons PP as you're gonna get from an all-pull guitar! The changers on this #3 guitar are actually a prototype and the current design has been changed slightly but this guitar seems to play and sound just great to me.

Best regards,

Lynn
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Tony Glassman


From:
The Great Northwest
Post  Posted 10 Feb 2009 5:44 am    
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Lynn, how about some more undercarriage close-up pix.
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Lynn Stafford


From:
Oregon City, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 10 Feb 2009 6:28 am     Undercarriage Photos
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Here you go Tony!






Some of the knee lever functions will be changing as soon as the parts arrive that I ordered from Bruce Zumsteg.
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Jim Hoke

 

From:
Tennessee, USA
Post  Posted 11 Feb 2009 10:56 am    
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What is this, porno for steelers??
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Paddy Long


From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
Post  Posted 11 Feb 2009 12:35 pm    
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There's nothing quite so sexy as looking up the skirt of a Zum hybrid Smile
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Lynn Stafford


From:
Oregon City, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 11 Feb 2009 12:36 pm     Steeler's Porn
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Embarassed

Good one Jim Laughing

Best regards,

Lynn
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Tony Glassman


From:
The Great Northwest
Post  Posted 12 Feb 2009 11:32 pm    
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Lynn...it's a beaut..........

but, please explain to me why the brass hex nuts are on some rods and how they function any differently from the nylon ones.
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CrowBear Schmitt


From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 12:59 am    
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i too's a wonderin' why those nuts are there instead of the usual nylon tuners
is this specific to the Hybrid ?
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Barry Gaskell

 

From:
Cheshire, UK
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 2:45 am    
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Quality will out.
Nice to see proper pedal stops and substantial, machined aluminium instead of bent tin.
As they say in cornwall, England....'proper job'
Nice one
Barry
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Dag Wolf


From:
Bergen, Norway
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 4:35 am    
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About the brass tuners. They are not to be used as regular tuners. They do the same work as the collars on a PP which are located at the bellcrank (oposite end of pullrod) on a PP.
Having it the brass tuners at the end like the hybrid are better cause you don't have to turn the steel upside down to do the length adjustment. These brass nylon tuners are only to be used when factory set up the steel or when you will change the setup.

Your open tuning are the ten allen screws above the nylon tuners.

So basic tuning are done first by tuning the raises then the open tuning.

It is easy but I do go back and forth a bit more than on a regular allpull steel to dail it in.
Like a PP once you have all the raises and lowers dailed in you just tune the hybrid on the regular pegs.
If something drifts off - check all raises and lowers on that string and it will hold.

Typically I can play several gigs without having to touch the allen or nylon screws.

If you don't know how to tune an Emmons PP you will probably not understand this post.

Hope that helps Cool

Dag
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Lynn Stafford


From:
Oregon City, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 6:42 am     Hybrid Tuners
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Well, Dag did a good job of explaining things.

Bruce Zumsteg told me the only reason the recessed brass hex nuts are used instead of nylon, is because they seldom need to be adjusted, once they are set. You have to tune the raises on the changer in the same fashion as you'd do with an Emmons PP. I use a #1 phillips screw driver to push the changer finger against the cabinet, while tuning the raise using the string's tuning key. I then actuate the pedal or lever to raise the string pitch while adjusting the brass hex nut. Then the open note is adjusted using the Allen screw, as Dag said. This is how all of the primary rases are tuned, such as E>F# (E9 string 4). Secondary raises, such as E>F (E9 string 4) are done with a nylon hex tuner, just like any other all-pull guitar.

Lynn
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Tony Glassman


From:
The Great Northwest
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 7:20 am    
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Dag and Lynn.....thx

I still have a couple of questions:

1] why is there no brass hex nut on the first string?

2] Also if you use those allen socket cap screws to tune the "open" note, what do you use to tune the "splits" (e.g. the resultant G note obtained when pushing pedal 2 in combination with the 7th string G#-->F# lever)?
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Lynn Stafford


From:
Oregon City, Oregon, USA
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 8:04 am    
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Tony,

I'm going to replace the tuner for the 1st string with a brass one, as soon as I receive the parts I've ordered from Bruce. I meant to say earlier that either type of tuner (brass or nylon) will work but you have to make sure the pull rod (1/4" shorter for the brass tuners) is the right length, or at least has enough threads to hold. The splits are adjusted in the same way as most all-pull guitars are, using the Allen screws at the end of the neck. They are in the same place as they are on your standard ZumSteel.

Lynn
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Bruce Hamilton

 

From:
Vancouver BC Canada
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 1:21 pm    
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I am curious as to why there is this push pull tuning regimen on what on the surface looks like an all pull changer. Do the changer fingers move as one single unit without splitting like a push pull on a lower?
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Dag Wolf


From:
Bergen, Norway
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 2:01 pm    
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No.
The hybrid is an allpull steel BUT it does have the tonal sound of a PP with the finger in contact with the body on raised pulls and the open tuning were finger are resting against the allen screw. This is just as on an PP.
The lowers works as on an allpull steel.

The hybrid does not have to have the typically amount of room or back slack as a PP does.

The pedals on a hybrid are a tad stiffer than on a regular changer of a Zum.
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Dag Wolf


From:
Bergen, Norway
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 2:03 pm    
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Double post

Last edited by Dag Wolf on 13 Feb 2009 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dag Wolf


From:
Bergen, Norway
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 2:04 pm    
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Trippel post

Last edited by Dag Wolf on 13 Feb 2009 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 2:23 pm    
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Dag,
Quit stuttering! Rolling Eyes
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Dag Wolf


From:
Bergen, Norway
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 2:28 pm    
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O-O-O-OK Laughing
I think it's the forum server having hickups.
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 2:35 pm    
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Dag,
It seems like some days it takes soooooooooo long for a posting to be submitted that I've been guilty of hitting the "submit" button a few too many times myself. Very Happy
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Bruce Hamilton

 

From:
Vancouver BC Canada
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 2:45 pm    
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So being an all pull system could you explain why the pedals are tuned like a push pull. Is there something in the mechanism that precludes it from functioning as a typical all pull changer? I am just curious if there is a simple explanation of how it is physically different from a typical changer and how it actually works.
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Dag Wolf


From:
Bergen, Norway
Post  Posted 13 Feb 2009 3:01 pm    
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Bruce,
It works the same as a PP on the raises and open (no pedals engaged).

An allpull raise finger stops because the pedal are hitting a stop screw. If you push the changer finger with a screw driver the finger will continue to raise.
A hybrid raise finger stop becase the finger hit the body of the steel. Just like the PP Emmons.

Remember that a PP pushes the rod to lower.
A hybrid simply have a different design on the lower finger so instead of pushing it pull the rod to lower.
A push pull is a push pull because it push to lowers.
A hybrid and others all pull are all pull because they PULL to lowers and raise.

Hope this helps. If you do not know the PP design it will be hard to explain.
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