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Author Topic:  Keyless pedal steel market
Johnie King


From:
Tennessee, USA
Post  Posted 3 Sep 2019 10:28 am    
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What percentage of steel players would you say prefer a keyless pedal steel?
Too me I like both keyed Model an keyless model equally. The GFI keyless system is my favorite because you can tune the open tuning with out a wrench.
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K Maul


From:
Mechanicville NY/Hobe Sound FL
Post  Posted 3 Sep 2019 1:57 pm    
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I have both but really like my GFI and my EXCEL. So easy to transport and a smaller stage footprint.
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David Ball


From:
Linville, North Carolina
Post  Posted 3 Sep 2019 3:57 pm     Re: Keyless pedal steel market
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Johnie King wrote:
The GFI keyless system is my favorite because you can tune the open tuning with out a wrench.


My keyless Excel tunes open at the changer with no wrench needed too. Great system!

Dave
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Len Amaral


From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
Post  Posted 3 Sep 2019 4:17 pm    
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Sierra and Williams 12 string universal keyless. .Fun guitarsπŸ‘
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Rick Abbott


From:
Indiana, USA
Post  Posted 3 Sep 2019 5:55 pm    
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The only guitar I would consider at the moment is a Sierra. My first choice is a new Sierra, but a very close second is a keyless Crown S-10 set up as a sort of Universal. My 70 Sho~Bud Professional has tone to spare, but the tuning stability and tone of a Sierra could be my next move, maybe.
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Joe Krumel


From:
Nashville,TN.
Post  Posted 4 Sep 2019 8:38 am     keyless preference
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I can't say I prefer keyless over traditional keyed.I've owned 3 traditional keyed steels, and 1GFI s-10keyless. The GFI is my only guitar now, and it works great.
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post  Posted 4 Sep 2019 8:42 am    
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I just don't like the looks of a keyless guitar.
It reminds me of a chicken with its head cut off. Whoa!
Erv
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Johnie King


From:
Tennessee, USA
Post  Posted 4 Sep 2019 9:09 am    
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Erv I feel your in the Majority with the market so small for new key model steels seems most of the major brands choose not too offer keyless models.
Although when I have a used keyless for sale they seem to go as quickly as a keyed model.
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 4 Sep 2019 9:34 am    
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I don't think the attachment to keyheads is just mindless conservatism. If you're used to your first pedal being to the left of the nut, then I imagine the shorter body of the uni feels quite cramped.
I know what Erv means, but we don't eat the head of the chicken anyway.
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post  Posted 4 Sep 2019 9:41 am    
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I put a keyless head on a Sho~Bud yers ago.
I forget the brand but it fit right on and had a little tray to store your bar and picks.
It worked out pretty neat but I thought the keyless head eliminated some of the overtones present with a keyed head. Very Happy
Erv
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Russell Adkins


From:
Louisiana, USA
Post  Posted 4 Sep 2019 6:39 pm    
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First pedal I ever seen was a keyed guitar Then one day I seen a keyless and I thought it looked very strange to me , however after owning a couple keyless guitars ive grown to admire not only the looks but the very thought of the design, it works very well and looks great. A sho bud guitar and a couple other steels look strange to me with a keyed tuning system they need the keys imo, if the guitar is built with keyless in mind in the first place then that's what it should be once again imo,
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA
Post  Posted 4 Sep 2019 7:01 pm    
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I don't think that the pedal steel market hinges on keyed vs. keyless. It's more single- vs. double-neck. Most new players - the biggest part of "the market" - don't care a lot about keyed vs. keyless one way or the other. They just want a guitar that's trouble-free.

That said, I suppose my preference is keyless because changing strings is easier. It doesn't matter though because I'm not in the market for a new pedal steel. I already have the one that's best for me. Mr. Green Mr. Green
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Jeremy Threlfall


From:
now in Western Australia
Post  Posted 4 Sep 2019 9:00 pm    
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I have just bought (paid for, not delivered yet) my first keyless guitar. Despite the likely lack of vintage overtones from the strings behind the nut, and despite having to get used to a new 'home' position for my left foot, closer to the centre of the guitar (A pedal to the right of the nut)

I try and make a point of not getting too pedantic about string spacing, footwear, seat heights, volume pedal tapers, etc, as I figure a bit of adaptability could be a handy thing.

And besides, if keyless guitars suit certain professional master players, then I'm not going to say they're not good enough for me

I'll give a market participant's appraisal after the guitar arrives. Its a short universal set up too, which is another new thing for me
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Stu Schulman


From:
Ulster Park New Yawk
Post  Posted 4 Sep 2019 11:19 pm    
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I have never played a keyless guitar but Chuck Back is in the process of building a keyless S-10 for me should be ready soon...photos to follow.
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Jeremy Threlfall


From:
now in Western Australia
Post  Posted 5 Sep 2019 12:06 am    
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Stu Schulman wrote:
I have never played a keyless guitar


You and me both, buddy

In fact, I don't think I have ever actually seen a keyless steel in person with my own eyes, only in pictures

I used to look away (like Erv) but then I snuck a peek, and then another - slightly longer - one, and whaddya know, turn the page, I got one
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Ian Rae


From:
Redditch, England
Post  Posted 5 Sep 2019 1:52 am    
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I'm not chasing vintage tone, just chasing tone! So smaller and lighter does it for me Smile
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K Maul


From:
Mechanicville NY/Hobe Sound FL
Post  Posted 5 Sep 2019 1:58 am    
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Fortunately I’ve never had a problem with orientation of the A pedal, or the 0 pedal to the left of the A pedal when I’ve had that setup. Also have never noticed a lack of overtones or sweetness. Maybe my ears just aren’t that good.
I have GFI S12 & EXCEL S11 keyless. I also have a Sho-Bud Permanent D 10 with no roller nuts. I think THAT makes a slight difference in tone and sustain. They each have their own personality but my personality seems to mostly dominate since I’m playing the darned things.
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Stu Schulman


From:
Ulster Park New Yawk
Post  Posted 5 Sep 2019 6:29 am    
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Actually my friend Larry Allen had an Excel I sat behind it but didn't attempt to play anything on it "Different changes"so I'll wait patiently for My Desert Rose keyless to find me!
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Jim Palenscar


From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
Post  Posted 5 Sep 2019 6:31 am    
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I believe that I have the keyless ShoBud (Pro 1) that Erv referred to at my shop on consignment from Larry Allen. The keyless unit is a Bella- formerly made by Larry Cummings and works well. In addition to having a keyless tuner, this guitar also has a midi pickup on it.
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Jack Hanson


From:
San Luis Valley, USA
Post  Posted 5 Sep 2019 6:52 am    
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Erv Niehaus wrote:
I just don't like the looks of a keyless guitar.
It reminds me of a chicken with its head cut off. Whoa!
Erv

Totally agree wit'cha Erv. If it ain't broke, why fix it? Seems like reinventing the wheel to me. Besides, I've always been a sucker for the look of those old Kluson Deluxes.
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post  Posted 5 Sep 2019 7:05 am    
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One thing I did notice with the Bella keyless head (thanks Jim), the pulls were shorter, especially on the 5th and 6th strings.
You didn't need to pull the long strings past the nut to make the changes.
Erv
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George Kimery


From:
Limestone, TN, USA
Post  Posted 5 Sep 2019 7:17 am     keyless pedal steel market
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I have owned 3 keyed guitars and a keyless Kline. I prefer the keyless for several reasons. From a mechanical standpoint, a keyless is so much simpler. Instead of winding a string around a peg and having a gear to turn, a keyless just works like a tug of war. You can't get simpler than just grab hold and pull. The strings are much easier and faster to change. The guitar is shorter and stronger and has less flex with less
de-tuning. The strings are shorter so you don't have to tighten them as much, resulting in less string breakage. They pack smaller and weigh less. They stay in tune better, especially when transporting in the case. There are no flat spots when you tune. You can tune down to a note as well as up.You get used to the way they look and then keyed guitars look like a lot of wasted space. If I was ordering a new guitar and had a choice, I would go keyless without hesitation.
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b0b


From:
Cloverdale, CA
Post  Posted 5 Sep 2019 7:53 am     I'm Short
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As a short (5'6") person, I find the first pedal position on a keyless to be much more comfortable. At one point, I even had Tom Baker of Sierra move my pedals inward to the next position, for comfort. I imagine that most female players would be more comfortable on a keyless, too.

If I had longer legs, a wider cabinet might suit me better. The ergonomics of a pedal steel are very important to me. I can't play my best if the instrument is putting stress on my body.
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Sonny Jenkins


From:
New Braunfels, Tx. 78130
Post  Posted 5 Sep 2019 9:17 am    
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"Totally agree wit'cha Erv. If it ain't broke, why fix it?"

"why fix it",,,It's called improvement,,betterment,,a better idea,,moving forward etc. Been happening in industry and technology for,,,ever. There will always be those who would rather have a Model A than a new Expodition,,or a disc operated computer (remember those?) than a lightening fast lap top,,,or an old dial phone than a multi function cell phone with more technology than it took to put a man on the moon! Those old things were NOT broke,,,but someone had an idea to improve. Yes, some will accept it as improvement,,,some will stay with tradition,,,to each his own.

Ian,,,,I guess there are some who like "the head"????
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Erv Niehaus


From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
Post  Posted 5 Sep 2019 9:32 am    
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Sonny,
Plus, it gives me someplace to lay my bar. Very Happy
Erv
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