Suggestions for a Live Recorder / Mixer

Pat Irvin · From: Kansas City, Missouri, USA

I'm looking to get a Digital Recorder for some home recording. But I would also like it to be capable of functioning as a small mixer/recorder for recording and mixing live with a 3 to 5 piece band.

I will need the Channel EQs and effects to be seperated with one mix ran to powered speakers and a dry mix recorded to mix later either on the Recorder or from a Computer.

I'm not looking to spend a ton of money. I'd like to stay less than $1,500. And less would be even better.

Please feel free to give me any suggestions or hurdles I migh have trying this.

Regards,
Pat
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2003 Zum D-10 8x5, Late 60's Fender 400 8x0, 1954 Fender Custom T-8, 1968 Fender Telecaster, Peavey Nashville 1000, Session 500, Session 400, PodXT

Chris Tarrow · From: Maplewood, NJ

If you can swing it with 8 channels, this might fit the bill:

http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?A_PROD_NO=D888

I have not used the unit, and cannot speak for it's sound quality or ease of use, but seems to be aimed at the task you're describing. Volume, EQ and effects are applied to the track outputs, but not to the recorded tracks.

David Thornburgh · From: Philadelphia, PA

Akai used to make the DPS16, a great 16 channel Studio in a Box (SIAB), but discontinued a few years ago. I bought one used a few years back and it's a very nice piece of gear and quite easy to use. You can find one from time to time on ebay for 5 or 6 hundred bucks. Highly recommended.

David

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

This is a tuff task for a Workstation designed to RECORD. Can it be done ? Sure..

But mixing a 3 to 5 piece band ?? ..what are your requirements ? Start with how many mics you will need as that is what dictates the hardware and number of active inputs and faders.

3 mics, 5 mics, 8 mics , 12 mics ? whatever it is dictates how many LIVE active inputs you will need at the same time.

There are many workstations that have 16 inputs or 8 inputs, some are 12 , but first ask yourself what is the worst case for the amount of LIVE independent mics you will need.

Or, you can use a moderately priced 2 channel input workstation with an outboard 16 channel mixer driving the 2x channels.

Recording Tracks and Mixing LIVE sound, two totally different and unrelated tasks as you know.

IF the task is to record each separate track during the LIVE mix, then I am thinking $1500 will not be enough unless you purchase used, like a Yamaha AW4416. But, even that Workstation I believe can only record 8 tracks at one time even though it has 16 inputs. Maybe some of the HI end Roland units which are 24 tracks can record more than 8 tracks at a time.

First question..how many LIVE mics ? If recording the LIVE mix is part of the equation, then ask..How many channels can I record at the same time on the Workstations ?

Then of course next is..How many independent effects are available at the same time ?

See whats happening here...

go from there...

good luck

tp

Brian McGaughey · From: Orcas Island, WA USA

I've not looked at the gear mentioned above. Seems the simplest approach to me is to split each signal first thing after the source, then one signal to the live board, the other to the multi-track recording device.

I've considered this approach for recording our band live, but I don't have enough time or hands!...

Pat Irvin · From: Kansas City, Missouri, USA

Here is what I'm leaning toward.

http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?a_prod_no=D3200&category_id=3

I play the same small venue every week-sometimes inside, sometimes outside. Most of the time it's a 3 piece and we don't even use Monitors. And I almost always only run vocals & acoustic guitar through the Mains.

Most of the time I would be recording - 2 vocals, 1 electric, 1 acoustic, 1 upright bass

Every now and then - at the most - 3 vocals, 2 electrics, 1 acoustic, 1 bass, 2-3 drums

I like the functionality this Korg unit has of saving the settings for multiple locations and configurations.

I would then use the "Monitor Send" to run to my Powered Main PA Speakers (optional external EQ if needed). Then an "Aux Send" would be used for Monitors (just vocals/acoustic).

I think this unit would handle me also running everything through the board if I ever wanted to, but I doubt I would every do that. If I need to mike everything it is probably going to be at a different venue that has an FOH system already.

Has anyone had any experience with this unit? Or trying something like this with a similar unit?

Thanks
_________________
2003 Zum D-10 8x5, Late 60's Fender 400 8x0, 1954 Fender Custom T-8, 1968 Fender Telecaster, Peavey Nashville 1000, Session 500, Session 400, PodXT

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

looks like a very powerful unit for $1300 and does record 12 tracks on the fly @24 bit and 16 @ 16 bit..
thats very nice. 8 XLR Inputs with phantom power is a great feature as well.

seems like the obvious choice, I had no idea the 3200 was this powerful. What I really like about this unit is that it does not use any combined stereo recording tracks which cannot be separated, as many of the units do now.

good luck

tp

Brian McGaughey · From: Orcas Island, WA USA

Ya know, I think that'll work. I would have recommended it before but I didn't know it had an aux send buss.

We have this unit and have been using it to record our band in our rehearsal room "studio". It is indeed a very powerful unit, a lot of bang for the buck.

My main criticism is the LCD screen. I understand there have been compromises made to keep the cost down, but it's hard to see because of it's size. I can overcome it's size after working on it for awhile though. I wouldn't let it's size stop me from buying it, I'm just giving you a head's up.

Using this for sound reinforement and recording at the same time could be done. If it were me, I'd set it up in a mock (but complete) trial before ever getting to the venue. You'll be using the knob matrix on the right side for you monitor levels and the sliders on the left for FOH; the channel input levels set from the trim pot. (at least this is how I see it, usually when I talk like I KNOW what I'm talking about I'm wrong. Wink

) Anybody who makes a signal into it would have to promise to keep their volume at the level you used to set it up at the start, digital distortion is nasty, and this unit is no different, especially set at the 16 bit recording depth.

Yeah, you could patch a couple 1/3 octave graphs in front of your monitor/main power and you're off and running.

Now you got me thinking...I'm going to have to try this live, too!

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

ahh yes digital distortion..

just remember that -6db or there abouts is the typical 0 DB ref line compared to an Analog recorder @ 0DB.

Analog has forgiveness and even at times sounds hot above 0DB

uh..Digital above that line is

AHHHHHHHH!!!!!! ( that means not good )

Pat Irvin · From: Kansas City, Missouri, USA

thanks for the input.

brian let me know if you try this in the near future and how it works. i'm tempted to pick one of these up this week, but i'll probably wait until the beginning of july.

i think small band/venue it will work.

and i like the idea of just pulling the setups(eq, effects and all) up from the memory - plugging in and going

i've played the same venue & setup up for a long time and it would be awesome if i could record and be setup with very little tweaking
_________________
2003 Zum D-10 8x5, Late 60's Fender 400 8x0, 1954 Fender Custom T-8, 1968 Fender Telecaster, Peavey Nashville 1000, Session 500, Session 400, PodXT

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Pat, you can save the mix "Scenes" with all of the appropriate EQ and channel settings,probably the only thing you would need to do is set the levels. Just make sure each time you set up you do it all exactly the same. Same channels for each Mic and Instrument.

I believe this is pretty common now with PC controlled boards with memory. We used to play a club where we had to run the house system ourselves, after we set up our MIX, we saved it and each time we went back we used the same mix, just tweaked the levels.

This is good stuff..welcome to the 90's !

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