Anyone use an IVL Steelrider system?

T. C. Furlong · From: Lake County, Illinois, USA

I am curious about who might be using an IVL Steelrider. I did a forum search and read that they were delicate and had some reliability issues.

Also, if anyone has another MIDI system that they like, I'd be intereted in learning about that as well.

Thanks in advance for any info.

TC

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

I have one- although I've not used it in a number of years- it was reliable but didn't track as quickly as I'd like. I found it very useful for string pads and horns.

Tommy Allison · From: Transfer, Pennsylvania, USA

I've been using a Steel Rider for 6-8 months. I haven't had any problems with it. I only use it on about 5 or 6 songs in a 4 hour gig.
Tommy

Scott Denniston · From: Hahns Peak, Colorado, USA

I'd sure like to try one but I've heard that they're not made anymore and are pretty hard to find.

Bruce Meyer · From: Thompson's Station, TN

I've used one for about 10 years or so hooked up to a Roland JV 1080. I used to play 10 to 20 times a year and never had any problem with the IVL. I hauled it everywhere, including back and forth to Tennessee about 20 times. The non-standard midi cables connecting the pickup to the IVL rack unit wore out. It took me a while, but I found a company in NY state that made replacements for around $30, but its been a long time since I've ordered any.

I'm a novice, but I've always thought that a big key to making the system more usable is spending the time to set up the IVL's midi output to be able to be read properly by the synth. This includes pitch bend, sensitivity, and other adjustable parameters. The other key with the IVL, in my opinion, is obtaining an IVL unit with the optional foot pedal board and the corresponding optional circuit board that mounts in the IVL electronics unit. It greatly increases the programmability and usability.

TC, please send me an email directly if you want to talk more. I can then send you my phone number. I used to see and talk to you quite a bit in the Jump in the Saddle Days. I think the last time we talked, briefly, was when Workin' Class played before you at Cubby Bear about three or four years ago. I'm in TN now.

chas smith · From: Encino, CA, USA

Here's a couple of topics from a long time ago:

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/002145.html

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/004126.html

T. C. Furlong · From: Lake County, Illinois, USA

Thanks for the replies guys. Bruce, I'll be contacting you directly. Chas, thanks a million for the links. The information in those posts is very helpful.
TC

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

I've got one of the few 12 string IVL rigs around which I bought off Dave Ristrim around 12 years ago. I first put it on my keyless Sierra U-12 and it worked real well - about as well as those things work.I mean I could outplay it on the low strings but from about the 9th string up,it would keep up with my fastest picking. There's a few things you must do to optimize the rig. One is to turn the pitch bend off. After all,I play blues,jazz,country and americana rock so I'm mostly copping piano and organ sounds and they don't bend notes and even if it did work ok,it wouldn't sound like a keyboard anymore - I'll play it as a steel for that.That alone will speed things up considerably. The other main thing you gotta do is put each string on a different midi channel and then play each string thru it's own synth.You can get close enough to this ideal by having string 1 & 7 on channel one, string 2 & 8 on channel 2 and so on and you set that up at the IVL module.Then get a 6 part muti-timbral synth module like the old Roland U220 or JV-880. These have 6 different sections that can be adressed on seperate channels and have different sounds too.What I do is have each part recieve a seperate channel 1-6 and then assign the same sound on all the parts. Then store that as a global performance patch. Then change the sounds so all the sections have another sound across the board - then store that as a recallable patch and so on till you have a dozen or so useful setups with the 6 sections on seperate channels. Store the patches side-by-side so that you can easily scroll thru them on a gig. I did try having a horn section laid out across the strings so the baris and bones were on the bottom strings,the tenors next then the altos and the trumpets on the high strings. That way your natural C6 grips would arrange and voice the horn section w/each horn in it's correct range and position in the tone stack.For simple Stax and New Orleans type charts it was ok and the boo-wa pedal would add the correct bari splat on the bottom of a phrase complete with it's laid back,slightly behind the beat timing - thanks to midi lag. If you knew a little about horn sections,that worked pretty well given the cheesy horn sounds on all but the best samplers - especially when routed thru a Session 400 in a beer joint. As for the audio outputs I just route all the synth sections to the stereo outputs and on live gigs I just use the left output which will give you a right/left mono combo and in the studio I'll take a stereo feed into 2 direct boxes.The problem I'm having at the moment is that I don't have my Sierra any more and can't get the IVL pickup on my Excel because of the way the Excel is made. There's just not room enough between the changer and the regular pickup to fit the IVL in there. I tried to put it in front of the pickup but it triggers real squirrly and gives me false notes etc. There's just too much harmonic overtone information when you get that far (4") from the changer. The IVL wants to see as close to a pure fundamental as you can get and that's right next to the changer where the string is real stiff and not noding. I think I'm gonna cut down the top of an old single coil and see if I can fit the IVL in where it needs to be. Midi steel is a lot of hassle to put together but when you get it going it's a lot of fun.I was playing a gig with Albert Lee one night about 10 years ago and I didn't touch it for the whole first set - just played pure steel. Then I played the piano intro to Desperado on my Sierra and you shoulda seen the look on his face.If you can cop a fairly believable keyboard on the thing it can get you some gigs.

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

As a result of one of my visits with Reece, I mounted my midi 12 string pickup on top of the strings in a bracket that I chromed ("if it don't go, chrome it" an old racer's saying Embarassed

) and it is now portable between guitars with minor modifications as the hex pickups don't care what side of the strings they're on.

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Upside down bracket over the strings! Thanx for that idea Jim. My life just got easier - I think... -MJ-

Stu Schulman · From: Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)

Mr.Johnstone ,Thanks for the detailed explanation of how the MIDI steel thing works,I've always wanted to mess with one? probably never happen up here,But now I understand how to do it.
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952.

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

I have three of the 12 string IVL rigs, and after following Michael Johnstone's suggestions, I am extremely pleased with the way it works. Smile

I don't use it on stone country gigs, or when there is already a keyboard player with a synth, but with my regular band, the sax, horns, resonator, and various organ patches get a good workout.

(I might be convinced to sell one or two of my spares, if the opportunity and price are right. Wink

)
_________________
Jim Smith
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-

Scott Appleton · From: Ashland, Oregon

had one quit tracking 3 times sent it back 3 times when they were in biz ,, worked for a while then quit again
each time i sent it to canada for repair it took
3 months to get it back .. threw it away one day

David Munson · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

I was going to buy a Steelrider 12 string setup from Chuck Abend in KC but his string spacing on his Zum was too wide to fit my guitar. I got frustrated and decided to build my own from Roland GK-2a standard guitar pickups.

I use my cnc milling machine to mill out the proper string spacing and then cut apart the Gk-2A's and glue the individual pickups into the brass holders.

Here is a photo of my 1st one for my Excel U-12 with narrow string spacing.

I power them with a couple of Roland GR-9's midi controllers/synths that I bought on Ebay for $125.00 ea. They work very well and really add to the thickness of a steel with midi strings in the background. I also have hooked the midi outs to my Casio keyboard that has a really convincing hammond B3 sound.

Here is a couple of photos of the one I just finished for Dave Easley's D-10 Emmons.

I charge $100.00 to mill and powderpaint the pickup body and pickup mounting plate and will solder them togather for an aditional $150.00 you will need to supply the Roland GK-2a's

You can email me at David.Munson@DavidMunson.com

Cliff Kane · From: the late great golden state

David: what kind of an Emmons is that?

Thanks,
Cliff

David Munson · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

It's a "faux" Emmons.

It all started one night when one of my band members was giving me some crap about the the sound of my guitar (probably a little out of tune) and said "You know that guitar would sound a lot better if it had an Emmons logo on it."

When I put the logo on it and played the next gig he assumed I replaced my Excel. All night he kept on talking about how much better it sounded.

I have to admit even my instructor did a double take. He said "wow,,,,where did you get that?" I took him about a minute and realised it was only a new logo.

I have now removed the logo and am picking up up my new U-12 Excel on Monday. (this is the one at the Excel booth in St. Louis) This guitar is probably the most advanced U-12 guitar ever built. Yes, Buddy Cage's new U-14 might have a few more features but this one is the most advanced U-12 I have seen.

It features "dual neck" knee levers that pull different strings depending on the "lock lever" E9-B6 setting.

It fixes all the complaints from the D10 owners with knee levers that work both necks. The set up is 8 pedals - 5 knee levers but the RKR and the RKL work on both the E9 and B6.

Don Curtis at Scotty's is doing the set up.

Sorry for the long explaination...

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

You're gonna have a helluva time mounting that pickup or any midi pickup on a new Excel(see my post above). If you figure it out let me know how you did it ASAP please.

David Munson · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

I noticed it looked a little tight last week when I first saw the new Excel.

I like your idea of cutting down the existing pickup. I like solving problems and I'm sure I can solve this. With my CNC milling machine I can always make a new neck if push comes to shove and move the exiting pickup forward.

Maybe with this wider string spacing I can sneak the pickups in a narrower body.

I'm picking it up from Scotty's tonight and will keep you posted.

Michael Brewer · From: Carrollton, Texas

Here is my solution to mounting my IVL pickup on my Excel U12. This is very simple.

I cut two 1/2" squares of 1/8" thick brass and drilled and tapped them for a 4-40 screw. I then mounted one on the top side of each end of the pickup with a screw and nut holding it in place. Put a small amount of clear silicone sealer on each of the blocks and mount the pickup upside down on the guitar. Use a little weight of some sort to hold it in place until the silicone hardens.

The system works very well with the inverted pickup. To remove the pickup just remove the two screws and the pickup, leaving the two mounting pads in place on the guitar. The two pads will not interfere in any way when you case the guitar.

Because of the different diameters of the low strings vs. the high ones you will have to make some adjustments to the height of the mounting pads.

Russ Wever · From: Kansas City

Went down and spent the day with Pali today and took some pics of the bracket mentioned above that he made to mount his IVL pickup above the strings.

After seeing his method I might hafta build a bracket like his and get my Steelrider 'out of mothballs'.

I was always reluctant to install it 'permanently' on a guitar, so I think Jims method will do me well.

And BTW, thanks, Jim, for the Fun Visit and Full-Fledged Hospitality.

Mike Johnstone, if you should, per chance, be down at Jim's shop over the next month, let me know and I'll meetcha there.
~Russ

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

That makes so damn much sense now that I see it there's really not any better way to do it. But how do you keep the set screws from marring the sides of the changer? I see some felt inside the gadget but the screws would poke right thru that into the sides of the neck and changer.Is there something else going on there that isn't obvious in the pix?
So Russ - you residing in sunny California these days?

Jim Palenscar · From: Oceanside, Calif, USA

I used the soft part of Velcro on the inside of the bracket so that it wouldn't mar the changer and gently rounded the end of the thumb screws. They enter the bracket underneath the Velcro pushing it against the changer and really don't have much to do to support the bracket and pickup assembly other than keeping it on the guitar. I suppose that I could bury a small round pad of some sort between the Velcro and the bracket to keep the thumb screw from going through the Velcro and marring the side of the changer pillow blocks but it hasn't been necessary at this point. If needed I would add more Velcro to either the guitar or the bracket to make it fit different guitars. I made it out of solid aluminum (then had it chromed) and milled it out instead of bending it- but don't really remember why at the moment.

Russ Wever · From: Kansas City

Michael -
Not fortunate enough to live in this
part of the country . . .
I'm in Laguna Beach on this show
for the next 5 wks.
~Russ

Doug Rolfe · From: Indianapolis, IN

I am interested in putting a pick up like this on my Deckley sd12u. It appears that the my pick up might be too close to the changer, so could a pick up be made to fit like Jim has done on his with it mounted up side down? If that can work, do you need my string spacing and how exact does it need to be?

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

I like the way this is progressing ...If anybody figures out a way to make, and mount a midi pickup on the newer U-12 Excel, I'd sure like to buy one...For those who are working with the GK 2's, how well do they track ? ...Thanks, Jim

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