What do you Fender guys do to keep a high G# (with a raise to A) from breaking? I can't even get it up to pitch with the pedal. It breaks at the bridge.
I've broken two .011's and one .0115. Should I try an .012?
At this point I'm wearing safety glasses as I bring it up to pitch. Getting a little gun shy.
Seems like you have the old style Fender 1000 w/ the chrome, sheet metal pedals. Most players used "C" hooks to connect the ball end of the strings to the changer. You need to make the "C" hooks from some stiff wire.
Bob.When first went to a pedal steel back in the late 50"s it was a fender 1000.Later i bought a 400 to take on the road.I tried every thing from using a 10 on the first.It still broke them.I first tuned down to E flat and still broke them with a 10 gauge on the 1st.Finally went down to D and used a 10 gauge on the 1st.They still broke but not as often.You will just have to live with it.
But it turned out to be a blessing for me as the D tuning put the bar in a much better place for rock and roll playing open string for the guitar sound Then made a home made knee lever to raise the D string to get the Hank Thompons 9th cords.Then added another to lower the two Ds To that put it in the A 6th which was great for rock and a lot of pop stuff.
In D I also learned Don Richs guitar licks of Buckaroo in D which he did it in and could also play the Brumley style.I really had no idea what i was doing at the time but think i accidetly came up with an 8 string universal tuning.I still tune in D and use more heavy gauge strings on the later 10 string steels and as i have posted before I reverse my 9th and 10 strings.If i was tuned in E9th that would put the 9th D string out of the way.On mine it puts the 9th C out of the way.Dont have to skip the 9th string playing raking chords fot the fat chord sound.Sorry i got so long winded on this.
B0b. I had a Fender 1000 in the early 60s. And I had the same problem.
Dave Forehand showed me a good way to stop the string breakage. He helped me put the old type seat cover staples at the riser end, crimped the a little. That shortened the string by 1/2 inch. worked good for me.
b0b - I noticed the post about the "hog rings" and I don't recall if yours had them, but it should. If it doesn't, let me know ) I think I have a couple spares and we can at least get one on the offending string. That will help if there is any breakage at the ball by eliminating the sharp bend otherwise required to attach a string.
If yours are breaking that easily there is something wrong with the saddle. My recently sold white 1000 had the plain bar saddle and when I had it tuned to E9 (for about 6 months) I played it every day and never broke a string - but having heard all the stories about breakage, I had polished the saddle with a Dremel tool and polishing compound to ensure no burrs were present, then lubed it every week or so with TriFlow teflon. The roller bridges also can have burrs, and you do the same thing to the particular roller.
Eventually someone (not named, because he doesn't want to produce them - they're not easy to make) made a set of rolling shims that fit over the saddle - they would move with the string essetially eliminating friction. Really a genius idea, and it worked really well. I installed them even though I had no breakage problems as "insurance".
Simply, though, it boils down to problems at the saddle, not with the design. It takes only a tiny, microscopic burr to slice a string. However, if I was going to play E9 I'd probably change that string every couple of weeks or so just to be on the safe side.
Hope that helps -
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional
As Nic & Joey Ace have noted...I have a picture on my web site of a solution I came up with in 1964 when I was 19 years old, & my Fender 400 was my cherished guitar.
Yes, at the time I used a D9th tuning, however in the past several years I have been using an E9th tuning with a Jagwire .011Β½ for my high G#, with no problems.
Another tip is to put a drop of STP (or heavy oil) on the bridge & nut, especially if you have the early solid round bars for the bridge & nut as I do.
Another tip with the bridge...if the top side is developing grooves where the strings stretch over it, simply turn the bridge over for the good side, (providing it hasn't been done already).
As a side note...when I did our DVD on 'The Bakersfield Sound' with 'The Ralph Mooney Style', I was talking with Ralph, & low & behold we discovered that we both did a similar solution for the high G# string breakage problem. (I thought it was rather unique that a kid from Canada & his 'hero' from California came up with the same solution, being miles apart & strangers at that time).
Bob,
I had the same problem when I had my Fender, and I added a second hog ring to the first. This made the part of the string where the double winding part, or the return winding after in completes the turn around the ball end, goes over the bridge. Now the part that goes over the bridge is much thicker. You just have to be careful not to make too much of the winding go past the bridge because it will dampen the tone.
Good Luck! I made my second hog ring out of coat hangar wire, and put a 90 degree twist in it, so that the ball
end was still angled down instead of to the side.
Same problem with my 1000, b0b. The string tension on the G# was extremely tight when tuned to pitch. As soon as I tried to pedal down it snapped instantly. It was not a problem with friction on the bridge; the damn string was just too taught. I don't see how any mods or polishing would help this problem. I do have the hog rings on my guitar.
I tuned down to D9 and use a .012 for the problem string (now F#). Using standard E9 and C6 string sets (with a couple of substitutions for higher guages) I NEVER break any of the other strings on either neck of my guitar and rarely break the F#. This is the best solution I have found. At any rate, it's too late to turn back now. Full speed ahead!
Yes, D9th works much better for string life, it also sounds better (to me, anyway) due to the "ton of treble" these axes have.
One trick most players have used is turning the bridge-rod over. If it's never been done before on your ol' Fender, it'll give you a smooth, virgin surface to work with with practically no effort! Of course, as Jim said, polishing will bring an old grooved or burred bridge back to life, too.
In addition, a roller nut (from a regular pedal steel) can also be adapted to work as a roller bridge with very little effort. I'm really surprised that Leo didn't pick up on the "roller idea" sooner, since Harlin had already been using it for over a decade. Of course, other famous companies (like Sho~Bud) missed that boat, too!
For D9 I use a regular E9 string set, preferably on the heavy side. Substitute a .012 for the high F# and about .022 for the lower F#. I use a regular C6 pedal steel string set for the other neck with no subs.
Opps.B0b i had my finder steels before rollers were put on them.IF you tune down to D and put on more heavy gauge strings it gets away from that tinny sound.As we all know the heavier gauge used on the 3rd string gets a beter sound.So do all The other strings when tuned down to D.
The rollers, even thought theoretically more practical as a string-breakage prevention system, are not as smooth as the straight bar and burrs are still a problem. They are offset somewhat by the roller action, but still havr plenty off rough spots (the 1000 I pay now has rollers and took a ton of polishing to smooth things out.
the damn string was just too taught. I don't see how any mods or polishing would help this problem.
Well - the proof is in the pudding; they do. I've had 3 decades of experience working on saddles with stringbenders (mounted on different strings, and with different tunings) and the problems are consistent - if your bridge is mooth enough and you use a good lubricant - especially the modern Teflon - it's not the problem alot of folks make it out to be, who either didn't know how to maintain their guitars to lessen the potential problems or in some cases haven;t even played one and are just repeating posts they've read.
no matter what, they are likely to be more suceptible to breakage than on a shorter scale guitar, but sometimes you have to alter your normal proedures a tad to get the sound you want. So you change a string every two weeks or so - big deal.
Or like Russ says - jump over to the "B6 club" and you'll be a happy player.
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional
Location: Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
State/Province: -
Country: United States
Postby David Doggett »
Just an outsider looking on trying to understand this. So why do the Fenders have a bigger problem with string breakage than all the 24" and 24 1/2" scale pedal steels that followed? Um...looking back at the pictures, is it because they didn't have roller cam type changers, but instead pulled the strings over a stationary bridge without rollers, and also had no rollers on the nuts? Or does it have something to do with the cable pulls not being as smooth? All of the above? Or what?
