Feedback on new Apple Logic Suite?

Johan Jansen · From: Europe

I've got the M5000 Tascam mixingconsole, Mac G4, digi 001, what does it take to run logic 8 studio OK on 24 channels with all the effects possible?
JJ

Jerry Gleason · From: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Johan, it depends on which G4 computer you have. If you have a dual processor, 1 or 1.25 GHz then you're probably fine. Logic 7, which has similar requirements, runs fine on my old single processor 867 Mhz G4, and can probably do 24 tracks with many effects.

As for the effects, it depends on is which effects you're talking about. On the aforementioned machine, I would run typically two or three different reverbs, each on a separate bus, which could then be used by any of the individual tracks. Some effects, like EQ's and compressors, are best used as track inserts, so you're using up one instance of that software plug-in for each track you're using it on, rather than sharing it on a bus with other tracks.

In Logic, you shouldn't have any trouble getting as much EQ as you need on each track, but some EQ's, like Linear Phase EQ, take more processing power. Similarly, compressors and limiters like Apple's AU limiter and compressor take much less processing power than some third party plugs like PSP Vintage Warmer, but with some trade-off in sound quality and versatility.

The faster your computer's processor, the more software plug-ins you'll be able to use. The track count will be more likely limited by your hard disk speed.

If you want to get heavily into software virtual istruments, then you'll want to think about a newer intel Mac, because that can get very processor intensive.

basilh · From: United Kingdom

Johan, what Jerry says is quite correct, IF you just want to "Get By", on the other hand if you wish to use some of the better plugins and utilize all of Logic 8's features, you really do need a G5.
If you're intent on staying with the G4 then Logic Express 8 would be the better option.
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David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

You could start with Logic Express or full Logic,
and upgrade to a G5 when you hit the
brickwall of not enough power.
Certainly it WILL run on the G4, and the ONLY way to tell how much processing is available is to
fill it up to the top.
Then you know.

There is a learning curve involved, so starting with the full version and total layout for most power,
may not be necessary instantly.

For me there are 2 programs in this category.
Logic Pro and Digital performer.
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John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Randy Phelps · From: California, USA

John, I taught a class on Logic 8 yesterday (volunteered.) If your G4 can accept leopard (867mhz or better) it will run in basically the same footprint as previous versions and it will function just fine.

If you are planning to record more than 8 tracks at a pass and you are using lots of plugins or if you want to fully use mainstage.. it would be a great time to update to one of the core duo intel machines.

It would not be my recommendation to buy any more motorola based macs as there are clear advantages to the intels.

Logic is a giant leap forward for DAW recording... further, using a combination of Garageband and Logic is dead simple now and can create workflows that guys that 'just need to get the track done' really like.

The other benefits of the 'full' logic are really great: Mainstage is cool, the instruments and autotune features are handy and helpful and the mastering software will make the 'semi pro' market drool with the ability to release 'mastered' discs without the added cost. (of course, I still advise folks to use professionals when they can afford it... you can buy software, but you can't buy trained ears.)

There are a huge number of surfaces available for Logic and the price is clearly set to remove any obstacle a potential customer might have. Heck, you could run it on a mac mini and have the whole thing for less than a grand.

I have used lots of different products... this is the first one in a long time (melodyne would be the other) where I had that 'excited feeling' like the first time you got on the internet. I think it will be a killer app.

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Great feedback, Randy, thanks!

Where do you live? I'm in San Pedro, hoping you're close by!

I'm considering next year getting Logic (maybe express just to get started) and the Apogee Duet, but I'm watching reviews, that DAW is still very new, and it's so small, hard to believe it really can do what one would need in a teeny box like that. But I love my iPod, and it's even teenier, so there you go.
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Randy Phelps · From: California, USA

John,

I'm up north in San Benito County. We go to the mountains in New Mexico over the holidays but come back through the LA area on our way back for a few days to visit family... when I'm in town, I'll let you know if I get some down time... I'd be happy to show you how it works.... the apogee stuff is really, really nice.

I've got and have used several types of capture devices over the years... right now, I am using an Alesis multimix (a gift) and really like the Alesis IO as well. The presonus tools are great too. I've been less happy with the maudio 410 (I traded mine off) ... but, it is actually hard to find bad gear these days!

below is a thread with some tracks I put together in garageband and logic... I put them together for folks to solo over and have general noisemaking fun... I believe some of the loops might be forum members here!

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/twanger-central/82860-little-tune-solo-over.html

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Randy, do contact me before your trips, if we can hook up here in LA, that'd be fab.

I checked out 2 of your tracks, great, clean stuff. My needs are quite simple, just want to be able to do steel track overdubs commercially, so ease of use is one need, but pristine sound that a client can't complain about is the other.

Are those drums real?
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Randy Phelps · From: California, USA

Real? (depends on whether or not you've read enough Deepak Chopra books!)

yes. but they are loops... it that makes sense.

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Clear as mud! Confused

Randy Phelps · From: California, USA

loops are pretty cool and have been around since tape days.

making loops has become a hobby of mine and in a way part of my job.

You can buy loops of musicians who have been recorded. Then their parts are sliced into metrical pieces which can be reconstructed or adjusted or edited any way you want. You can add effects to the performance, change the pitch (a little) etc. But they are real instruments and real players.

I love making loops and making tracks for songwriter friends so that they can put parts together that they can hear but not play. or that they can play but don't have room to put up the drums and don't want to go electronic.

so, the drum loops I'm using are very real people. lots of loops I use are me or my friends, some are store bought. I just go for the right sound at the right time, I don't care who does it.

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Are loops and MIDI related somehow?

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

Just to jump in...

Loops are audio files not MIDI.

MIDI is DATA about (generally) musical events, a series of instructions about how to play something;like, "at such and such volume using patch number X, Start note, at this pitch, at Time A, end note at Time B," - this data is then interpreted by a synthesizer or other device and played with the sound that device is capable of.
the data is compact and portable- you could play the same MIDI file on various sequencers into various devices- the results depend on the device making the sound after receiving the MIDI instructions

Loops are short (generally) audio files that ideally sound the same every time and are optimized to repeat in some way; you can cut and paste them like word processing for music with the right tools. Drums are ideal for this- a four bar phrase can be repeated 4 times and you have a verse... another pattern for another four and you have the chorus.
Confusion may come in because Loops and MIDI can be used together in most sequencer programs today, or a loop on a Sampler could be triggered by a MIDI note-on message.

hope this doesn't confuse you more

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

Thanks, Dave...I even have a simple little book on MIDI, but I don't think it explains sequencers, how do they fit into the picture?

Is GarageBand mainly for using loops, or is it also MIDI?

I tried drag/dropping BIAB files converted to MIDI into GB, b0b was right, the instruments in GB are better sounding. Are there free or commercial instrument packs for adding more and better instruments for GB?

Now back to Logic for a minute: I just learned a student of mine just bought Logic and the Apogee Duet, so now I can see and hear firsthand how good that setup is, yay. I'm not a qualified expert to judge, yet, nonetheless when I see it in action, I'll post some data back here.

Dave Van Allen · From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

the word Sequencers come from the early days of synthesis- it was a device that triggered events in Sequence for your Wall Of Moog (or other device of the time) to play...

nowadays Sequencers are generally computer programs (there were some hardware boxes initially-running dedicated programs) that emulate the functions of a recording machine with MIDI data... hit record and the program records the MIDI data you play into it from a synthesizer or controller keyboard. You may then play that back, sending the data you recorded to the same device, another device ; you may edit, cut,paste-

it gets into the realm of Digital Audio Workstations like Logic once they added the capability to do this with audio files as well. Most DAW's can deal with both MIDI and Audio tracks in recording, playback, editing features etc...

garage band does both and pays loops as well

real simplified explaination... it gets lots more complex real quick... Though they make it pretty user friendly nowadays the intricate underpinnings are fascinatin', at least to me; I got in back in the 80's doing MIDI stuff... using an Atari ST and a Casio 4 note synth.

my midi and steel guitar page shows some of the stuff I was into. I'm much less engrossed in it now. I'm trying to learn more about PSG, and raisin' my boy (not necessarily in that order)

http://davevanallen.net/midstl2.html
and an equipment list of my ANTIQUATED MIDI Rig http://davevanallen.net/dvamid.html I need to update the computers in the list, but everything else is about the same

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