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Topic: Finding a Qualified, certified, Sound Tech for Large Church? |
Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 6 Sep 2007 9:52 am |
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| Is there a technical degree or certification for sound engineers? |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 6 Sep 2007 10:46 am
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| Do a google search for "sound engineering degrees". That will answer your question. |
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David L. Donald
From:
Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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Posted 8 Sep 2007 9:49 am
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No too many degrees in this stuff being given out.
And those institutions tend to put out informed students.
But with little practical experience.
A few schools, and they tend to be pop music
recording training. Mic/mixer/speakers basics
and theory, some hands on,
but not like working in the trenches.
Certified... HUH by WHOM???
This is not the same business
as say construction companies.
I would go with the guys who have done
many installations, over many years.
This isn't rocket science,
the church's acoustics and architecture
will likely determine the type of system
it needs for best coverage vs cost.
Very echo'y calls for smaller speakers in more places.
Possibly in a HUGE space with a little time delay,
so that the sound from the front of hall speakers
arrives in sync with the farther back speakers
and not as a late echo.
A nice smooth decaying room can be done
with fewer speakers, but each a bit louder.
A dead room may need more speakers again.
because natural echos don't help propigate the sound.
Posts, columns, naves and padded or blocked seats
all come into the equation.
If it really is a 'problem room'
then an acoustician is in order.
But that may mean re-desiging the space.
Masking reflective surfaces adding flutter traps etc.
Big churches built with HUGE budgets often didn't
include a TRUE acoustician in the architect budget...
And what SEEMS like a small change to a normal architect redoing a good sounding room,
can make the new one a true horror acoustically.
To their client's everlasting regret,
even not knowing WHY they regret it...
'Great looking room, but we can rarely hear the reverend clearly.'
Getting voice at a reasonable level to 500
or so people is not that hard these days
with the available small directional speakers
and amp/mixer combinations.
Here is a company that makes rooms sound good.
They write papers that are accepted by the
Audio Engineering Society journals.
I have several of their components in my temp studio right now.
And an AES member is a good place to start for a installer.
At least this shows they are really interested
in the science of the job.
http://www.rpginc.com/
This page has the "Worship Spaces" they have worked on.
http://www.rpginc.com/commercial/projects/worship.htm
But this is room design and improvement,
and not sound system installation.
Sound system installation is and easier gig.
_________________
DLD, Chili farmer. Plus bananas and papaya too.
Real happiness has no strings attached.
But pedal steels have many! |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 8 Sep 2007 10:24 am
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Ron - there are a number of Christian colleges that as part of their music major, may include training and education in sound technology for churches. If I have some time later, I'll dig up some links for you.
David writes that isn't rocket science - and it isn't - but being a church worship leader, and having worked with different people on our sound teams over the years - it can be pretty complex,and since Ron has asked the question, he knows that just as it is with a secular concert performance - if the sound is mediocre, then fine musician and vocalist talents (and hard work and practice in a limited amount of time) can be wasted.
I spend almost as much time thinking and dealing with this stuff as I do planning out the music for the service.
_________________
Mark |
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Alan Kirk
From:
Paso Robles, CA, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2007 10:33 am
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Sound engineering is not complex, if you know what you are doing. Certifications are worthless. At best, they say that the person can turn knobs and slide faders.
The best sound engineer is an actual musician with hours and hours and hours of ear training and hours and hours and hours of studio experience (listening on the microscopic level) and an understanding of what goals can be accomplished in various acoustical environments and how to attempt to achieve those goals with whatever equipment is available.
It's all about musical aesthetics (90%), not technology (%10).
It's a thankless job, and the most qualified people tend to shun it.
Good luck.
_________________
Everyone in the world has two jobs: 1) whatever they do for a living; and 2) music critic. |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2007 11:15 am
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Thanks to all replies.
I think we will search for a member that has an interest and apptitude for being organized, and find the right experienced teacher.
Yes, every one is a music critic. Our other problem is too many experts, but no one willing to step up to the plate.
Seek and we shall find. |
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JAMES BANKS
From:
Mineola,TX USA
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Posted 10 Sep 2007 6:51 am
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Hi Ron. I do not have an certification, but I have been involved with sound at church for 0ver 20 years. If you are looking for someone who can teach someone to operate a board, contact Danny Beaver at Dude's music. He has provided sound for the Texas Steel show for several years. I have worked with him and learned a lot from watching him and asking questions. He teaches sound classes at some colleges. You will not find a nicer guy to share sound knowledge. I agree, it helps to have a person who is a musician or at least loves music enough to know what it should sound like. I installed a system in a church one time and the lady who was in charge told me all the music was just noise to her. Buddy you could tell it too when she was on the board and she had to constantly be turning knobs. If you need another contact, send me an email and I can give you another name or two of possible people who could give you a seminar.
Thanks
James |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 10 Sep 2007 3:18 pm
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Thank you James.
This may be the answer. The basic auditorium and the stage do not change day to day, week to week.
And yes, Dude's music has always done a wonderful job on live sound.
I hope you know haow slow churches can be with decisions. I will put this in the pot and watch it boil.
Thanks so much,
Ron |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2007 4:11 am
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| Alan Kirk wrote: |
Sound engineering is not complex, if you know what you are doing. Certifications are worthless. At best, they say that the person can turn knobs and slide faders.
The best sound engineer is an actual musician with hours and hours and hours of ear training and hours and hours and hours of studio experience (listening on the microscopic level) and an understanding of what goals can be accomplished in various acoustical environments and how to attempt to achieve those goals with whatever equipment is available.
It's all about musical aesthetics (90%), not technology (%10).
It's a thankless job, and the most qualified people tend to shun it.
Good luck. |
I don't know how you can make these statements. If you look at the digital consoles that are installed in many large churches and the tie ins to the video department and the link to Aviom and Intellex systems for headphone monitoring by the musicians, from what my experience is, the job is VERY technical. The sound engineer at the church I work at has a very complex job.
I know many fine sound engineers who are not musicians at all. Maybe they can play a few chords on a guitar, but that does not make a great engineer. Bill Porter, Rudy Van Gelder and many other classic recording/sound engineers of the 50s and 60s were not musicians. That was an era where the engineer was totally responsible for your sound unlike today where you have techno crap being operated by totally untrained knob turners. There are plenty of recording classes taught at schools, but just like other school things, just because you have a degree does not mean your any good or even qualified.
As far as it being a thankless job, I can tell you that the engineer at the church I play at makes close to $40K a year just for Sunday and Wed. night and he is VERY appreciated. |
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JAMES BANKS
From:
Mineola,TX USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2007 4:52 am
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Hi Bill, You are right about it being a complex job.Our church system has 30+ channels, a sixteen channel aviom feed,and a feed to video. We are also recording to tape and cd at the same time. The cd is then used to make a radio program. I am in charge of scheduling and radio program production as well as duplication for mail out. It doesn't require a musician to do all this, just a desire for the congregation to hear the best mix of everything. I have several volunteers who do a good job. Our church doesn't see the need to pay me, I just do it because I want the church sound to be all it can be.
James |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2007 7:57 am
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James. Very commendable your service to your church.
The Church I work at is the Church of The Apostles here in Atlanta. There is a worldwide ministry coming from here called "Leading the Way". The mind set of the church leadership is to hire professional musicians and sound techs and pay them the going rate to get a first rate job.
I know that most churches depend on volunteer members. This thread began with the church size being the larger category with more complex sound needs. |
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Ron Randall
From:
Dallas, Texas, USA
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Posted 12 Sep 2007 12:46 pm
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Thanks for ALL the replies.
From your inputs, I believe our answer is within the local community. Dallas is a big place. We will seek out one or two of the best from other churches, and have some OJT. In the long run, I hope we can have a pro, and be willing to pay him.
There are 3 smaller auditoriums and the large Worship Auditorium. Each has its own system and board. Yes, we have the 16 channel Aviom systems for in ear monitors, floor monitors All kinds of mics, instruments...
When the sound is right, the vibe is right, and the congregation is very loud. That is what we want. We do not intend to have a concert. |
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