If someone wants a D10 from me they have the normal waiting periode that most builders have.Most company's require a downpayment on the steel.I do to.Up to 25% of the total value.
Right now I am concentrating on parts rather then complete steel guitars.
<SMALL>if many do go towards the US for a steel it's because they DON'T know that there are European steel makers</SMALL>
I think that 90% of the players in Europe know who the builders in Europe are.You only have to type the words in your google browser and they all pop up.
It's your good right to push WBS.Just as it is my good right to push my own or another brand.I know that WBS makes an outstanding steel guitar.And that they have great service.I never questioned that at all.
So does Devis.They to build great steel guitars and have an outstanding service.I know there are several builders in Europe...but I don't agree with you when you say that players in Europe don't know that there are several builders over here.You know it to don't you?Why shouldn't anybody else know?
Ron<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Ronald ! on 18 April 2005 at 06:46 AM.]</p></FONT>
Bobbe,
If you can make enough to buy a tender steak dinner from the sale of a Promat....do it ! The economy is tuff ! BTW...If you are not in the market for a Promat P/P, stop whining about the price. I play a guitar that most folks don't like, and even fewer have ACTUALLY played one. The price for it is what somebody is willing to pay for it ! So how much ya got ?
It seems to me that builders are entitled to charge whatever they feel their product is worth. A truly overpriced product cannot be sold in a free market.
Whining about prices is among the least interesting topics I can imagine for this forum. I only read this because as moderator I must. I advise all others to let this topic die its natural and deserved death.
You are right b0b. Bottom line for me is it does not matter who builds it or the name on it, I could not afford the price. I am happy for those who can though.
Hook
Ron, I noticed with interest your quote
"if someone can make a living out of selling steel guitars,then I would consider that someone a Big Dealer" Would that include me here in Europe?
Ted Nesbitt
Rainbow Music Ireland
From everything I've read here, I'm sure this new Promat is a wonderful guitar made by a very conscientious builder. I'm also sure it is made to tight specs and has more than ample tone. According to Bobbe's website the parts are interchangeable with an original Emmons Push-Pull, which of course validates the copy/clone argument. The price is not an issue with me.
I know some would think this is a petty observation but I am still hung up on the fact that this guitar has to look exactly like an Emmons! In addition to being functional, playable, tone-able, all instruments are a work of art.
I am disapointed in the builder not putting his "mark" on the instrument. Change the fretboard! Use a differrent shade of black! - anything!!!
I recognize that maybe the workmanship and the builders integrity and attention to detail may very well be his "mark".
It's not the price. Build a good guitar and they will come.
I'm sure it is a great guitar and I wish only success for Mr. Papic.
Do you Bobby or does anyone know if Mr. Papic will sell parts seperatly. Such as machine heads or pedals? I assume the machine heads are cast correct?<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Steven Welborn on 18 April 2005 at 11:03 PM.]</p></FONT>
Perhaps a little clarification is needed on the observation I made earlier, Emmons collars will not fit promat rods, whether changers are proving to have difficulties in any way I have yet to find out.I also have yet to hear it played.
------------------
Ron (Chippy) Wood
Emmons D10
Emmons D12
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Chippy Wood on 19 April 2005 at 04:57 AM.]</p></FONT><font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Chippy Wood on 19 April 2005 at 04:58 AM.]</p></FONT>
Sorry for not answering your question sooner.You asked me if European steelers prefer American steels.If I look at the dutch steel players I can say YES,they do.
If I speak for the rest of Europe,I Think they do.I haven't seen that many bands with a steel made in Europe.I know that European steel guitars are just as good as American steel guitars.Maybe even better.
Why the European steelers prefer American steel guitars over European is something I can't answer.Must have something to do with the fact that American steelers always had the upper hand in Country.And most steelers still try to copy those American steelers.
Here in Holland there are some players that own a Zum just because Jeff Newman made some of his best material on one.Other players own a Mullen because Herby Wallace plays one.
And come to think of it Crowbear....you ordered a new ZUM.Why not a new WBS or a DEVIS?
I owned a Emmons LeGrandeII 4x6.This was a monstersteel I still would have it if I didn't ran in some financial troubles a couple of years back.Before that one I had a Sho-Bud Professional.The best steel guitar I owned.And I do not think this way because they are American but because these steel guitars have the best sound I have ever heard.I still think that way.I would buy one in a second if it only wasn't so heavey.
Ron, in my previous thread i wrote :
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><HR><SMALL>on the other hand, the steel i have on order for my own bad self is a Zum !
that must be cause of the American blood that runs through my veins & the appreciation i have for Bruce's workmanship</SMALL><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Chippy, ok so if the the Promat is metric then the neck scale wouldnt be 24 1/4" but something there abouts in metric right?. Then the Promat machine heads, if roller nut to tuning key dimensions are "harmonically" tuned as Emmons are, would'nt be perfectly matched to a 24 1/4 scale neck. Am I on base here?
Steve, no, you have guessed wrong, the proportions to the Enmmons P-P are exact, the screws for tuning are the only metric parts, the 8/32 collar screws are English/American gothic, not metric. The tuning wrench is 3 MM. (metric)
The scale is an exact 24.25", same as Emmons. The "over hang" in the keyhead is identical to Emmons, critical to sustain and over tones/backfeeding.
Steve, I'm sorry, I should have been more specific when I stated that the guitar was "All metric", it isn't, just some of the insignificant screws, not the critical dimentions. Most all Emmons P-P parts fit this guitar fine. I have changed the set-up on the Promat and have become familiar with it's total make up.
I am mostly impressed with the Promat tone, Quality is fine to excellent, but tone is unsurpassed, and I mean, unsurpassed!
Bobbe,
Steve, I am impressed with your thinking, you obviously have some great insight to what goes on in the keyhead of a steel guitar, what you said is truly important to tone and sustain.
<SMALL>Quality is fine to excellent, but tone is unsurpassed, and I mean, unsurpassed! </SMALL>
and when I hear that from the biggest push pull fanatic on this earth who is also a virtuoso of the steel guitar I have no other choice but to believe it and be a proud owner of two of those wonderful guitars.
<font size="1" color="#8e236b"><p align="center">[This message was edited by Pat Burns on 18 April 2005 at 10:26 AM.]</p></FONT>
