Nix The Picks

[David Mason]

Shortening up the thumbpick is critical for my use on both six-string and steel guitar. If you get it just right, you can even mute strings selectively with the side of your thumb above the pick. (Too short, and they all mute...) Additionally, you can shape it to work well for upstrokes by filing it into a sharkfin shape, as though your thumb was the shark and it was eating your palm - this is more pertinent for six-string, and it works far better on the wide picks like Dunlops or Golden Gates rather than skinny Hercos or Kellys. (Dunlop "Heavies" #9216 are my favorites). I am trying to induce my younger students into a commitment to these, as I am pretty sure if I'd started that way I wouldn't have such a unshakeable flatpick addiction.

To my mind, Eliot Fisk's renditions of the complete caprices for solo violin by Paganini, on a nylon string guitar, pretty much put to rest the notion that you can or can't play fast using one method or another. Holy cow! You gotta hear that stuff. There's a picture on the cover and he appears to have the same number of fingers and strings as a mere mortal - I hate his guts. Paco De Lucia has a knack for playing the single sweetest notes in all creation, placing one just so in a song to really jump out - he can also play 16th note triplets at 180 bpms, 18 notes a second that is. I hate his guts too.

[Bill Hankey]

Doug, B.J.J., and Twayne, I had posted an extensive reply earlier this morning, but something erred, and as a result it didn't appear in the thread. I'm disappointed, but for now I'll just ask each of you to remember the Alamo, and Waterloo. Entertaining noncomplacent views regarding fingerpicks, smacks of the "diamond in the rough" aestheticism.

[Mike Shefrin]

David,
Elliot used to drop by the American Institute of Guitar in NYC alot when I was on the faculty there. He's a great artist. His hands are huge which explains how he can get some of those insane left hand stretches in his transcriptions. I believe he also holds the record for transcribing and playing the most Scarlatti sonatas on the guitar of any guitarist in history. Now you can hate him twice as much as you did before .
I also had the pleasure, and honor of meeting flamenco legends Sabicas and Mario Escudero who were regulars at the institute, and I even took a few lessons with Mario. Paco De Lucia is generally regarded as the greatest flamenco guitarist of all time surpassing Ramon Montoya, Nino Ricardo,and Sabicas.
If you like Paco, you might want to check out Vincente Amigo and Juan Manuel Canizares. I lived in Spain for ten years(1981-1991), and used to really be into flamenco and classical guitar.

[Duane Reese]

Comment Reconsidered

[Bill Hankey]

Mike S.,

Years ago, I had a Ramon Montoya LP that has long slipped away with changing of the guard. Accounts of his childhood were given on the back of the album. The writer claimed that Ramon was not allowed to watch or listen to his father play his guitar. Ramon hid in the closet, and learned to copy what he heard his father play. Do you know the album that I'm referring to? It would be interesting if you are familiar with the recording. Thanks for the interesting written material.

[Mike Shefrin]

Bill,
Sorry to say that I don't know the particular recording you are refering to although I may have heard it on a CD reissue of it's original vinyl recording. I don't recall those liner notes offhand, but as you are probably aware, there are several recordings of Ramon Montoya's playing available on CD and perhaps one of them is the one you recall.

[Alan Brookes]

You can pick your guitar.

And you can pick your nose.

But you can't pick your guitar with your nose!

...so it's no use waiting for someone to design the nose pedal !?!

Seriously, though, some metal picks have burr on them which needs to be removed with a file. Plastic picks hurt the strings less but they hurt the fingers more, since they're difficult to bend to the shape of your finger without them breaking or going back to their original shape. Playing with your fingernails is okay for classical guitarists, but metal strings wear dwon your fingernails. Playing with your fingers gives a better feel for the strings, but sounds a little muffled compared with picks. Playing with a flat pick sounds okay if you're playing a lot of straight chords, but you can't choose which individual strings so easily.

[Bill Hankey]

Alan F. B.,

I must contest the image that may be projected by stating that the fingernails produce a discernible difference in tone. A "muffled" tone doesn't expressly represent a cultivated style of precise scale patterns; with tones that challenge the discriminating listener who specializes in criticism. I must say that any semblance of a "muffled" tone, would find me scurrying off to the music store to load up on fingerpicks.

[Doug Beaumier]

Playing with your fingernails is okay for classical guitarists, but metal strings wear dwon your fingernails. Playing with your fingers gives a better feel for the strings, but sounds a little muffled compared with picks.

Bill, If I'm reading Alan's post correctly (quoted above), I think he's saying that the "fingers" produce a muffled tone as compared to picks, not that the "fingernails" produce a more muffled tone than picks. I believe he is referring to the bare fingertips. That's how I understood it within the context of his post.

[Bill Hankey]

Doug B.,

The next level of concern is one that focuses on fingerpicks and the lack of alignment with the ring finger and pinky. Early observations revealed a similarity of two extended tentacles feeling around for a place to rest. Most steel greats use the two idle fingers for a prop to stabilize their speed attacks, by gripping the edges of the steel's components. Playing without fingerpicks facilitates the use of all five fingers to contribute to a much richer tone. Manicured fingernails offer a serious challenge to unfriendly steel fingerpicks; both in tone and presentation.

[john lemay]

After playing acoustic guitar and electric bass fingerstyle for almost 40 years my fingers automatically know where they are and where to go to play chords and melody on the steel. Not so with finger picks on. I feel like I'm wearing foot long stilts when I use fingerpicks. I guess since I play for my own amazement it isn't a big deal but I'd like to have a compromise that gives good tone and comfort.

[Alan Brookes]

Bill: it wasn't playing with fingernails that I said produced a muffled sound, it was playing with your fingers (the fleshy part), which is how I tend to play. I've never liked finger picks, since they make my fingers sore, but when I do use them I find the sound is less muffled, and that applies to guitar and banjo too.

[Bill Hankey]

David M., make no mistake, I've enjoyed rereading your input on picks, and the pointing out of skilled players on their guitars. Mike's response is equally interesting, as both of your responses lend to the concept of fine music produced without fingerpicks. Still, one must take into account that flamenco guitarists move us away from the thread's main focus. If by purposely attaching elemental steel guitar significance, to all types of finger attacks, the preservation of straying a bit may be tolerated by the moderator. Otherwise, if strict adherence to the thread's main focus becomes enforced, the lack of creative inputs will detract from a natural interest to be better informed.

[Bill Duve]

I guess since I play for my own amazement it isn't a big deal but I'd like to have a compromise that gives good tone and comfort

There is a compromise im waiting to try out, Theyre the metal ones with the hollow middle which hooks under the nail allegedly giving both feel and tone, My music store man has kinda promised to restock the first of this year

[Alan Brookes]

Bill: Those picks that you describe are currently in stock at Musicians' Friend.

[Twayn Williams]

I have a set of those fingerpicks (Propiks) and while I find them vastly superior to standard fingerpicks, I still can't stand 'em! YMMV

I use 'em in conjunction with a flatpick on dobro for volume reasons, and do most of the work with the flatpick.

I do alot of blocking with my right thumb, which leaves out the use of a thumbpick for me.

[john lemay]

Alan were you referring to the "Alaska Piks" in Musicians Friend?

[Bill Duve]

Thanx, I'll go look there....These were metal and expensive and the life of them is a question too but I'll try anything once, I played 6 string lead for years with a cut down thumbpick and bare fingers but im new to PSG, I tried no picks but it dont sound like steel, And besides, the bigs use picks !

[Bill Duve]

No, not those Alaaska ones, these looked more like a beer can tab....
metal like common but open in the middle.

[Bill Hankey]

Bill D., while perusing the pros and cons of steel pick usages, I've decided to relate a speed picking experience accomplished without fingerpicks. Speed picking the "Orange Blossom Special" "bridge" with fingernails at 192 BPM is comparable to driving in fourth speed. There is a jazz arrangement that shatters the fastest versions that I've heard to date. This statement is in defense of the "pickless" mode of playing steel guitar. The speedpicking claim derives from a different "angle" of string attack. Another faulty issue in the fingerpick usage, involves brightness..whereby too much of a good thing can become wearying. Fingernails are more prone to a wide array of subtle tones that are unapproachable with fingerpicks. Compromising proven methodology would be a step in the wrong direction for me.

[Steve Hinson]

Bill,could you post a clip of that Orange Blossom Special bridge?

[David Mason]

It occurred to me that string spacing could have an effect on pick'd vs. nude finger preferences. Steel guitars with their very narrow spacing might almost require pointy little steel things to dig in there, while a wide-spaced classical guitar allows you the luxury of big fat hammy fingertips. I've lightly, unsuccessfully, rooted around the net trying to find out the string spacing on b@njos, if it's narrow this might somewhat confirm my hypothesis.

I don't have a b@njo lying around here (gee, wonder why? ) so I can't do direct research (whew! ) - I'm thinking, the narrow steel guitar string spacing might make it harder to apply significant power and velocity, as compared to wider string spacing. A possible confirmation could be that there seems to be a dearth of sensitive, bare-finger-picking b@anjo players lying around, but this could be entirely due to extra-musical factors also.

[BJ Jenkins]

Dave, Thanks,....Me too.
bj

[Bill Hankey]

Steve H., yes, I'll let you know when that will be done. Thanks for your interest.


David M., I once owned a Multi-Kord with widely spaced strings. It had the best vibrato in terms of sensitivity, that I've ever heard. The wide spacing of strings is not a good feature on steel guitars.It ranks with the mismanagement of action on the 6 string Spanish guitar.

[Steve Hinson]

Thanks Bill...I'd be interested in hearing it.