Mike Nesmith and The Monkees

Bill McCloskey · Post by **Bill McCloskey** » 30 Sep 2010 1:33 pm

"How many can remember Bobby Sherman"

Are you kidding! Here Come the Brides - one of my favorite shows growing up .

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 30 Sep 2010 4:14 pm

Oooop! Now we teed off the Bobby Sherman fans. Can't win.

scott murray · Post by **scott murray** » 30 Sep 2010 4:45 pm

most of us probably know it, but if you haven't heard Mike's "And The Hits Just Keep On Comin" it's just him on acoustic with Red Rhodes on steel.

says a lot about the man and his music.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 2 Oct 2010 8:09 pm

Joachim Kettner wrote:
Earnest Bovine wrote:Are you saying that Mike Nesmith could have written something as good as Sugar Sugar if only he hadn't been held back by the oppressive terms of his rapacious contract?
Was that comment pro or con Monkees

I am absolutely 100% PRO-MONKEE !!!

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 2 Oct 2010 8:30 pm

Bill McCloskey wrote:"How many can remember Bobby Sherman"

I remember Bobby Sherman the actor, but my memory of Bobby Sherman the singer is too fuzzy. His records came in cereal boxes of all things, and don't ask me which brand of cereal had Bobby Sherman records. One of the cereal box record songs was 'Bubblegum and Braces'. That's all I can remember.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 3 Oct 2010 7:10 am

deleted

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 3 Oct 2010 7:19 am

Actually, he was on several Post cereals including Raisin Bran, Alpha-Bits, Honeycomb, and Rice Krinkles. Also some in Canada, but I don't know which brands there.
http://www.bobbysherman.com/cbrec.htm

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 3 Oct 2010 8:19 am

I remember "Easy Come, Easy Go." The marketing people have been trying to jam stuff down our throats forever. It is very difficult, especially today, to predict what is going to click with kids. A large portion of today's entertainment has been taken over by the bedroom amateurs. I can't say it's been all bad--those autotune videos on Youtube are hilarious, particularly this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dc2txXXI1k

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 3 Oct 2010 1:34 pm

Actually my favorite Sherman is Allen. "Hello Mudda, Hello Fadda". Great line. "I went hiking, with Joe Spivey. He develpoed, Poisen Ivey".

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 3 Oct 2010 4:16 pm

Don Kirshner .. gads, what a old fashioned music-svengali douche.. the old school.

A guy like Kirshner doesn't get the concept of artistic freedom, vision or that his artists might actually be just that "artists."

He markets product, and it's kind of funny watching him try and to reason or even contemplate why someone might want to be more than his marketing meat puppet.

He makes my skin crawl.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 3 Oct 2010 6:49 pm

Yeah, but don't hold back, Jason. Tell us how you really feeeel about Don Kirshner!

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 4 Oct 2010 5:58 am

Except for the name, Jason could have been describing Dick Clark.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 4 Oct 2010 9:17 am

Barry Blackwood wrote:Except for the name, Jason could have been describing Dick Clark.

That may be true, but Dick Clark deserves credit for having African American artists like Chuck Berry and (I think) Little Richard on American Bandstand at a time when many were still condemning rock and roll for being integrated, and calling it "(n-word) music."

Also, the first time I ever saw a steel guitar was when Santo and Johnny appeared on the show.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 4 Oct 2010 9:30 am

sherman, the monkees et al were ahead of their time. they would have smashing success in today's country market.

Randy Phelps · Post by **Randy Phelps** » 4 Oct 2010 10:05 am

I'm a fan of the monkees (love their country rock styled stuff especially, the mike murphey songs etc) and I love Nez. I had the "Joanne" 45 as a kid...

all this 'professional' talk is silly. contracts have always been more negotiating tools than documents that anyone feels compelled to follow.

That has been true in most big business (and the music business is big business) for all of the last century.

When the railroads were being built, all concerned constantly tore up contracts, changed terms etc.... if you have ever worked on a 4-10 million dollar contract, there are constant change orders, renegotiations etc... it is expected and understood.

In the monkees case, they had a nice run, Nez moved on when he couldn't agree with management and, yeah, there was acrimony, but that is just part of business...

If the question is "who was the 'smart' one?" I think it worked out for all of them. Davy and Mickey had lower expectations for the whole thing.. Davey thought it would take him from Oliver to the silver screen and stardom. That didn't happen. (except for HEAD)

Mickey was just about having fun and I think he has had fun and has done well as a producer.

Tork had pretensions to higher art, but he seems fairly content...

And Nez, Nez made the most music, has had an amazing career with lots of different interests attended to... he doesn't strike me as a super happy person, but he is certainly accomplished.

I watched the documentary and I remember the point being made that Kirshner was happier with the Archies (and boyce and hart) because they weren't actual people and would ONLY do what he wanted. Fair enough, but for someone who has worked at being a singer, songwriter, performer.. being dictated to is not always what they want to do...

So, I think they all were smart, they all won and it is a good overall story. I wouldn't mind having recorded Sugar Sugar, but I would much rather have written and recorded Joanne. But, that is just me.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 4 Oct 2010 10:55 am

That may be true, but Dick Clark deserves credit for having African American artists like Chuck Berry and (I think) Little Richard on American Bandstand at a time when many were still condemning rock and roll for being integrated, and calling it "(n-word) music."

Mike, I'm not as sure as you that Clark's intentions were more altruistic than commercial ...

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 4 Oct 2010 11:09 am

Barry, I think Clark's intentions were purely commercial, and he viewed Chuck Berry and the other artists as commodities to be exploited. But that doesn't change the fact that he presented Black artists to White kids at a time what it was not considered a respectable thing to do.

Even if his only motivation was to make money, he still did some good.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 4 Oct 2010 5:31 pm

Randy, I like your analysis, especially since you saw the documentery. They won't let them in The Rock N' Roll Hall Of Fame. I think Mickey Dolenz has a very healthy attitude about the whole thing. A sense of humor and fun.

Glenn Suchan · Post by **Glenn Suchan** » 5 Oct 2010 10:15 am

Here's the Micky Dolenz (a.k.a. Mickey Braddock) That we all know and love

Oh, and remember Noah Beery Jr.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxSLww4mw6w

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 5 Oct 2010 9:21 pm

Thats funny Glenn. I grew up watching Dolenz on that show as a kid. I even had the lunch box! Dolenz looks like a young Nazi brown shirt in that video clip.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 6 Oct 2010 8:01 pm

I thought that would end this thread. Thanks guys.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 6 Oct 2010 10:07 pm

One final word on the Monkees. The music was good - the TV show was terrible.

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 10 Oct 2010 4:12 pm

In truth, it would seem that "Sugar, Sugar" was not among the songs which Don Kirshner offered to The Monkees. Andy Kim has stated that "Sugar, Sugar" was never offered to the Monkees and was in fact written expressly for The Archies nearly two years later. Andrew Sandoval of Rhino Records, an expert on The Monkees, has theorised that instead The Monkees were offered a song entitled "Sugar Man," written by Sandy Linzer and Denny Randell. In fact, it was on January 22, 1967 that Don Kirshner held a recording session, produced by Denny Randell, during which instrumental tracks for the songs "I Wanna Be Your Puppy Dog," "Love is On the Way," "I Didn't Know You Had It in You, Sally," and "Sugar Man," all by Linzer and Randell, were all recorded. While never released by The Monkees, "Sugar Man" would later be recorded by bubblegum artist Keith (who had a hit with the song "98.6") and released both as a single and a track on his album Out of Crank in 1968. It would be due to the similarity of the two songs' titles that over time even those present at the confrontation between The Monkees and Don Kirshner would mistakenly remember "Sugar, Sugar" as the song which The Monkees refused to perform. Regardless, it must be pointed out that "Sugar Man" was nearly as much bubblegum as "Sugar, Sugar," as were the other tracks produced by Denny Randell on January 22, 1967.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 10 Oct 2010 7:48 pm

That's a VERY glaring error in the documentery if its true. Don Kirshner and at least one other state it in the documentery.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 11 Oct 2010 1:31 pm

The Monkees playing "Sugar,Sugar" or "Sugar Man" would seem to be just as inapropriate as Marty Stuart singing "Let your Love grow".