What is "Country", exactly?

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 9 Jul 2008 10:28 am

I've spent the last couple of days transferring some early day Grand Ole Opry shows (1947-1948) over onto CD.

Red Foley on several different occasions mentioned 'the hillbillies' on the show but when Eddy Arnold stepped up to the mic....his latest hit was 'tops in the country and on Folk Music Charts everywhere".

Folk Music was to later dominate the nation's COFFEE Shops of the young hippy movement.......but again, I could be wrong.

When Grady Martin would take a chorus on his great sounding lead guitar....he could play rapidly on many strings, all with a melodic flair. All notes were clean and added to the over-all flavor of the vocalists' song. He could play on more than one string.......... He could vary his style and technique beyond imagination.

The NON-PEDAL steel guitar.....when taking the solo's was absolutely fabulous to hear and during the sad songs like "OLD SHEP" and "JUST A MAN AND HIS DOG".....one can hardly keep from shedding a tear or two. It was the emotional instrument of the day.

The NON-PEDAL steel guitar more often than not, kicked off a majority of vocals, was prominent in the middle between the first and second verses. The fiddle and lead guitar all alternated their back-ups and solo work like professionals. Quite often, all three would play harmony together. GREAT SOUNDS!

Regardless of your station in life, IMHO, COUNTRY MUSIC started dying when the steel guitar was removed from the fore front and fiddle players like Dale Potter and Tommy Jackson were overwhelmed by the new breed of AMPLIFIED VIOLENISTS. Electric banjo's and electrified drums added to the decline of REAL COUNTRY MUSIC.............I think.

Ben Jones · Post by **Ben Jones** » 9 Jul 2008 12:19 pm

"If you're looking at me...you're lookin at country!"

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 9 Jul 2008 2:26 pm

I remember that in the early 70's, I heard the term "Progressive Country". I wonder what ever happened to that.

Mike Shefrin · Post by **Mike Shefrin** » 9 Jul 2008 2:49 pm

I remember going to a Joe Pass clinic in Boston back in the seventies. Someone asked him "Hey Joe, do you play any country music?". Pass then started playing an Italian polka type of thing on his guitar, and said "My family was originally from the 'country' of Italy"

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 9 Jul 2008 3:35 pm

I think the distinction between country-rock and southern rock (which had a lot of overlap) has been lost by modern DJs and music writers.

Also, there's no question that a lot of older classic country pickers here on the Forum use "country-rock" to refer to country-rock of the '60s and '70s, southern rock from the same period and a little later (very similar, but usually without steel), and the hated modern rock-country.

Technically, in English the modifier precedes the thing. So country-rock properly refers to rockers (many young hippies from California) who took on some country style and instrumentation. And southern rock properly referred to rockers from the south who put some southern influences in their rock. And I think rock-country best describes the modern turn of commercial country music to more of a rock sound. But this is typically played by southerners with boots and hats out of Nashville. They are not rockers. Like it or not, they are what young modern country pickers and fans and labels and stations have turned to. What they are playing is clearly recognized as today's country by today's country fans, and today's rock fans.

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 10 Jul 2008 5:51 am

Bob Knight,

I agree completely. Now thats Country in my book. I think I ccould play Crazy Arms forever and never get tired of it.

On the other hand, I see what Dave and others are saying about how musical genres must evolve or die. I mean if there was only one song to play and that song was Crazy Arms and I had to play it every day, an hour a day for the rest of my life... it might get a little old. So I see the need for change, but I don't see the need to move completely away from the essence of 'Country' as has been done with this new-fangled "Rock-Country", to use Mr. Doggett's designation.

For example, back in the 1980s I walked out of a Restless Heart concert because their instrumentation was not country, and I'd come to hear a Country Music Concert. There was no fiddle, no steel, just a telecaster, an electric keyboard, and of course, plenty of drums. To me, thats not country. You could play Crazy Arms with that instrumentation, but it won't come out country, not to my ears at least.

To quote some DJ from the Armed Services Radio, many years ago...

"Of course this is just my opinion and nobody else can have it, but almost everybody does."

--

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 10 Jul 2008 6:16 am

Nashville's definition of country,,,

Country Music = "whatever will make us a buck"

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 10 Jul 2008 7:18 am

Bob Knight..That's country in my book.

I kind of judge music by the effect it has on me. Older country music generally had a good true to life story line even if it was often about drinkin' and cheatin'. And, every now and then, there would be a steel break in the middle that would make the hair on the back of my neck jump up.Today's "country music" just don't do that for me. Country and rock have both gone too far for me to enjoy very long.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 10 Jul 2008 11:10 am

We all can agree Country means different things to each of us.

Listen to what you like, and you guys try to happy!

Rick Alexander · Post by **Rick Alexander** » 11 Jul 2008 8:09 am

Country is where you find it.
This guy is country and he "can't help it folks" . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97K4OrMKuVc

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 11 Jul 2008 9:06 am

I grew up in Shreveport Louisiana, the home of the Louisiana Hayride. All the kids I knew who lived in the country listened to Iron Maiden and AC DC. All the kids in the suburbs wore big hats drove trucks and listened to Hank jr and Alabama. All the Old Folks listened to the Hayride era stuff and hated everything else. I never could figure out why one style of music was supposed to represent people's geographic location. Hank Williams sung blues with an Alabamian accent and Hawaiian style backup band. Go figure.....

The Gone with the wind Southerners hated the rural mixing of Black and White music styles that represented the Cajuns/Appalachians/Ozarkians etc..so I guess you had a division in "Southern" music right of the bat.

Personally I cant stand many of the new bands in any genre of mainstream big-time music. It seems really watered down and phoney. But I guess the music industry knows what they are doing,,and making a LOT of money at it. Post-modernism. The phoney is more real to people now. Since the consumer has lost their identity, they have to buy it back. Your options are available under one roof. What kind of person are you? Im aisle 8, thug gangster, but your aisle 12 country. Depressed and parents dont understand? aisle 10 emo.

There are a lot of smaller labels like Bloodshot that promote a more soulful-unwatered style of playing. Really good steel popping up in indy music. The "She and Him" album http://www.myspace.com/sheandhim listen to change is hard and take it back.

also http://www.myspace.com/willoldhampalacebonnie "no more workhorse blues" and "Gulf shores".

While these arent country per say,,they are very good attempts at making good music with feeling and intelligence.

Plenty of good stuff we could support and just let mainstream music wallow in its own filth.

My fingers hurt

Karen Lee Steenwijk · Post by **Karen Lee Steenwijk** » 11 Jul 2008 11:30 am

"Country" now days is just like the line in the movie "Forrest Gump" that was said"Its like a box of chocolate" you never know what your gonna get"..So we listen,and pick who we like best.

Karen

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 11 Jul 2008 3:12 pm

Karen,

You're close. I listen to what I can tollerate, or hate least.

Paul Norman (RIP) · Post by **Paul Norman (RIP)** » 11 Jul 2008 5:11 pm

This is country
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ggvZJRx4G0

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 11 Jul 2008 6:40 pm

Freakwater, Merle Travis, Gary Stewart, Grady Martin, Patty Loveless, Lefty Frizzell, Jimmy Rodgers, The Carter Family, Pat Green, Heather Myles, Patsy Cline, Don Edwards, Red Steagall, Rodney Crowell, Jack Ingram, Allison Moorer, Laura Cantrell, Mandy Barnett, Kelly Willis, Waylon Jennings, Conway Twitty, George Jones, Don Williams, Maddox Bros & Rose, Johnny Bush, Merle Haggard, Ernest Tubb, Webb Pierce, Red Foley, Bob Wills, Spade Cooley and all of the various Hanks.
There are also alot of Alt-Country bands like Wilco, Uncle Tupelo, & Son Volt that play very good country songs but add a lot of rock songs on their cd's.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 11 Jul 2008 6:47 pm

This is country-rock: Linda

And this is rock-country: Faith

And this is country: Tammy, Loretta, Dolly

I’m confused.

But it’s all good. And all with fantastic steel.

Karen Lee Steenwijk · Post by **Karen Lee Steenwijk** » 12 Jul 2008 6:08 am

THIS IS COUNTRY!!<---CLICK

Joe Drivdahl · Post by **Joe Drivdahl** » 12 Jul 2008 11:50 am

David,

Do you know who is playing steel on Blue Bayou? Doesn't sound quite like the original, but its pretty close.

Joe

Pete Finney · Post by **Pete Finney** » 12 Jul 2008 12:06 pm

Sure looks like Dan Dugmore in the Linda Ronstadt VH1 clip, playing pretty close to his original recorded parts.

Cool clip!

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 12 Jul 2008 5:03 pm

Nowadays there are a lot of good artists that are trying to get their foot in the door.
How ever.....these youngsters have a hard time in succeeding because of the simple reason that we all stick to the old Country & Western sound we all love to hear.
I don't think that it is completely fair towards them....do you?They are fighting legends and legacy's.

When I turn on the radio I hear no more Beatles,Elvis etc etc.Those were the artists we followed while our parents were protesting to get that R&R of the radio....remember those days??

Looks like we turned into our parents.Didn't we make a promise to our selfs to never let that happen?

Ron

Scott Shipley · Post by **Scott Shipley** » 12 Jul 2008 5:51 pm

"I Shall Sing No Song That Is Not A Country Song. I Shall Make No Record That Is Not A Country Record.
I Refuse To be Known As Anything But A Country Singer.
I Am Proud To be Associated With Country Music.
Country Music And Country Music Fans Made Me What I Am Today. And I Shall Not Forget It."

Four years later the artist who took out a full page ad in the March 1965 issue of the Music City News with the above words, which I proudly have framed and hanging on my wall right next to a picture of Ernest T. Bass commencin' to thow a rock, recorded "Who's Gonna Mow Your Grass," "Tall Dark Stranger," and "Johnny B. Goode."

Duke Ellington said it best.....
"There's two kinds of music: good and bad."

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 12 Jul 2008 8:54 pm

Errrrr.....uhhhhh...everything David and Karen posted sounded like country to me. It was a little unkind to have chosen that classic tune for Faith Hill. The original is just overpowering. Why would she even have wanted to sing it?

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 12 Jul 2008 10:34 pm

There was a thread on here a year or so ago about who the steeler was on that Ronstadt Blue Bayou clip. I think it was either Bobby Black or Dan Dugmore, but forget which.

The story is that Faith was green and hadn't heard the original when they asked her to record Piece of my Heart. I picked it because I love what the steeler did with it so much (Paul Franklin I think) that I like it as much as the Joplin original, but in a different way. It shows that modern rock-country can be killer with good steel. And it is not so different from what use to be called s**t kickin' country.

The Tammy, Loretta and Dolly number, a good example of women doing s**t kickin' country, also has some great steel. Anybody know who that was?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Jul 2008 9:21 am

Ray Montee wrote:Red Foley on several different occasions mentioned 'the hillbillies' on the show but when Eddy Arnold stepped up to the mic....his latest hit was 'tops in the country and on Folk Music Charts everywhere".

Folk Music was to later dominate the nation's COFFEE Shops of the young hippy movement.......but again, I could be wrong.

I consider the '50s and ''60s college "folk music" to be a breed apart from hillbilly folk music of the 30's and '40s. To me, there was nothing country about Peter Paul and Mary, The Kingston Trio, The Lettermen, Joan Baez, or the New Christy Minstrels.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 13 Jul 2008 2:41 pm

David,
I agree with you about Faith's version of "Take Another Pieces Of My Heart"!
It is Paul on the record, and you can tell Tammy was a true influence!

Love it & it's Country without a doubt!

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What is "Country", exactly?

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